Kate Mulgrew calls Gene Roddenberry a misogynist

[Makeshift Python]

Mr. Yuka, when he says that, he means that he feels more safer about your guesses than most people's facts.

Let’s go save the whales, Yuka.

[Riedquat]

Was Gene Roddenberry misogynistic? Certainly seems that way but people are complex creatures, so both misogynistic attitudes whilst also putting women in roles that they generally wouldn't be in at the time may well both be reflections of his personality.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

What CmdrKing is saying is what I'd come to expect from this kind of situation.

Kirk himself comes off as a likeable boss, but he's all too comfortable with the structure that's set forth. Not incredibly horrible, but you can see a potential overlap in how he treats gender equality while keeping men in line.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

Without speculating as far as specific incidents and accusations, how Roddenberry treated and thought about women has been a blemish on his reputation for a long time.

As far as TOS, a lot depends on how you approach it. If you look at the series through a 21st century progressive/feminist lens and construct some metanarrative to critique what you think the show's viewpoint might be, its culture, etc., then things probably won't look so good. If you judge things on a case by case basis and assume that each character represents only him or herself rather than a whole philosophy, then things mostly don't look that bad considering the era of television. The former approach is probably overly harsh and short-sighted, the latter might be a bit naive and overly generous in letting the show off the hook for its overall attitude.

There might be a good balance between those two extremes, but I tend a bit toward the "case by case judgment" side. Characters like McGivers or Eleen from Friday's Child are easily defensible imo. It might even be possible to defend the portrayal of Janice Lester. Some of the storylines and the "alien babe of the week" stuff are the result of that era of television, maybe you could call it passive sexism but I find it difficult to judge the show itself for those problems. If I remember right, the miniskirts (to cite one example) were the result of studio insistence.

If I'm being totally honest, I generally don't go in for pearl-clutching over 50+ year old tv shows. The more infamously chauvinistic moments in the show are mostly just amusing, outside a small handful of truly gross moments (e.g. Spock's comments to Rand in The Enemy Within).

[Madner Kami]

I find it perfectly acceptable that someone thinks that women aren't just destined for the kitchen and can be put into traditionally male-staffed roles and still think that they have proverbial cooties that hey have to overcome. After all, the TOS Federation is one of people striving to be better, which is kind of the major theme of TOS in general, that we can become better than what we are, that we can rise to triumph over our nature, but, unlike in TNG, this struggle to become better does not mean, that we do not have our inherent weaknesses anymore and this includes traditional misbeliefs about women and men.

And I very much subscribe that Gene had that set of mind in general, at least during the gestation and formation of TOS (god knows what he thought in early TNG though). After all, it's not uncommon to be both a Conservative and be in favour of a Green Policy. You can be a feminist and still think that women shouldn't have the freedom to be prostitutes. It's possible for a staunch environmentalist and "climate preserver" (for lack of a better word) and still support nuclear energy. So why can't one be a person think that women are just people like men, but are still "women"?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I'm not estranged from the idea that recognizing aspects of the show were disrespectful back then. Fixating on guilt or redemption works this way or that, but there's things about the show that you don't exactly have to look out for that strongly, and it's a bit more than formalities or somewhat loose interpretations. I'm not of the mind to condemn Roddenbery and even less so Star Trek. But I don't have a problem saying that the overall moral of Mudd's Women is disrespectful, specifically being about how women can find it in their own selves to be attractive to a man.

[Yukaphile]

I seriously doubt he was the one putting women in those roles. And if he was, it was for the wrong reasons, to leer at them rather than seeing them as anything but a piece of flesh.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

why

[Yukaphile]

People who cite Goddenberry as a "flawed but still pioneering visionary liberal" don't know the man personally. My grandfather, born in 1910, was a liberal, and an old-school romantic. He NEVER had those views. EVER.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

People who cite Goddenberry as a "flawed but still pioneering visionary liberal" don't know the man personally. My grandfather, born in 1910, was a liberal, and an old-school romantic. He NEVER had those views. EVER.

Yeah but why? Neither do you. Your grandfather doesn't account for much past what one person was conscious of in 1960.

Not to mention that he was considerably old (at 50 YO), an indicative age where people are mellowed out and don't judge people as hostile as they used to.