Does it bother you that Disney will be risk averse with Star Wars?

[Ordo]

Because neither person has the body of work or nominations under their belt that Ron Howard does. Considering how much Money the Force Awakens and Rogue One made, splurging a bit on a director that has a history of producing quality work is more important than hiring a cheap replacement.

Star Wars made it clear it does not aim for the sky so it makes no difference.

You are entitled to your opinion, I would argue their actions show that they are aiming for the stars. If they didn't care they would've let these directors do anything they wanted instead of reigning them in when it became clear their vision didn't match with the spirit of the characters and Star Wars. If they didn't care they wouldn't have fired Josh Trank the moment it became clear he was a poor fit for the Job. If they didn't care they wouldn't have bothered to have Rian Johnson rewrite the script for 'The Last Jedi' to focus more on the characters introduced in TFA. I could go on, but I feel what I have posted along with other things shows a desire to produce quality work. It won't appeal to everyone, but the intent to create quality story is there.

[Karha of Honor]

Because neither person has the body of work or nominations under their belt that Ron Howard does. Considering how much Money the Force Awakens and Rogue One made, splurging a bit on a director that has a history of producing quality work is more important than hiring a cheap replacement.

Star Wars made it clear it does not aim for the sky so it makes no difference.

You are entitled to your opinion, I would argue their actions show that they are aiming for the stars. If they didn't care they would've let these directors do anything they wanted instead of reigning them in when it became clear their vision didn't match with the spirit of the characters and Star Wars. If they didn't care they wouldn't have fired Josh Trank the moment it became clear he was a poor fit for the Job. If they didn't care they wouldn't have bothered to have Rian Johnson rewrite the script for 'The Last Jedi' to focus more on the characters introduced in TFA. I could go on, but I feel what I have posted along with other things shows a desire to produce quality work. It won't appeal to everyone, but the intent to create quality story is there.

Of course they want quality work. But not excellent work. Do you think the wast majority of the old EU got the tone of SW right? What do you think were the exceptions? Never read or played EU? I address the rest of your points but i have know this before that.

[Ordo]

Of course they want quality work. But not excellent work.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with you for the reasons already stated

Do you think the wast majority of the old EU got the tone of SW right?

If you're talking about the Old EU under Lucas I would argue a number of stories (Games, comics, etc) got the tone right and did excellent work with the story. The old EU had problems, which is one of the reasons it's now gone and a story group was created under Kathleen Kennedy to keep things consistent

What do you think were the exceptions?

Games:
Dark Forces, Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight, Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy, Knights of the Old Republic, X-Wing (PC Space Flight game), Tie Fighter (Space Flight game), The Old Republic, Republic Commando

Comic Books:
Tales of the Jedi series, Dawn of the Jedi series, Knights of the Old Republic, Star Wars Legacy, Crimson Empire.

Novels:
Darth Bane series, Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Outbound flight, The first five books in the X-Wing Novel series, The Thrawn Trilogy, Jedi Academy trilogy, I Jedi, Hand of Thrawn, Vector Prime, Dark Tide Duology, The Dark Nest trilogy.

Never read or played EU?

You really shouldn't make assumptions about my experience with the Old Star Wars EU.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

Looking at the big picture, it doesn't make much sense to me to be too critical of the direction Disney is taking Star Wars. I can certainly understand if fans dislike with certain aspects of the new stuff or would prefer different choices, but the franchise could be doing much worse right now.

The last sci-fi movie I watched was Alien 3. Talk about killing your franchise in one fell swoop, basically within the first five minutes of your movie- there's been movies (from middling to horrible) since that point, but the Alien universe has never really had a coherent, marketable continuity/universe since. The Terminator franchise has also become less and less coherent and interesting over the years. Star Trek has had what could be termed a successful reboot, but I think most would agree it hasn't been ground-breaking. Other sci-fi franchises, like Stargate, aren't getting any new content at all.

My conclusion from all of the above is this- even if you ignore the money-making aspect, Star Wars is doing quite well compared to other sci-fi franchises. Even in ideal circumstances, great artistic heights are only reached so often (the EU never reached those heights imo), and I think Star Wars is in a better position to reach those heights than any other sci-fi franchise out there. Particularly with the standalone and episodic films being produced concurrently, I think an inspired team could produce something great.

[Karha of Honor]

Of course they want quality work. But not excellent work.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with you for the reasons already stated

Do you think the wast majority of the old EU got the tone of SW right?

If you're talking about the Old EU under Lucas I would argue a number of stories (Games, comics, etc) got the tone right and did excellent work with the story. The old EU had problems, which is one of the reasons it's now gone and a story group was created under Kathleen Kennedy to keep things consistent

What do you think were the exceptions?

Games:
Dark Forces, Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight, Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy, Knights of the Old Republic, X-Wing (PC Space Flight game), Tie Fighter (Space Flight game), The Old Republic, Republic Commando

Comic Books:
Tales of the Jedi series, Dawn of the Jedi series, Knights of the Old Republic, Star Wars Legacy, Crimson Empire.

Novels:
Darth Bane series, Star Wars: Darth Plagueis, Outbound flight, The first five books in the X-Wing Novel series, The Thrawn Trilogy, Jedi Academy trilogy, I Jedi, Hand of Thrawn, Vector Prime, Dark Tide Duology, The Dark Nest trilogy.

Never read or played EU?

You really shouldn't make assumptions about my experience with the Old Star Wars EU.

We are not on the same wavelength about what can be Star Wars. The only thing that did not feel Star wars for me was Lando's book trilogy.

I asked a question. No idea why did you decipher an aggressive tone.

Looking at the big picture, it doesn't make much sense to me to be too critical of the direction Disney is taking Star Wars. I can certainly understand if fans dislike with certain aspects of the new stuff or would prefer different choices, but the franchise could be doing much worse right now.

The last sci-fi movie I watched was Alien 3. Talk about killing your franchise in one fell swoop, basically within the first five minutes of your movie- there's been movies (from middling to horrible) since that point, but the Alien universe has never really had a coherent, marketable continuity/universe since. The Terminator franchise has also become less and less coherent and interesting over the years. Star Trek has had what could be termed a successful reboot, but I think most would agree it hasn't been ground-breaking. Other sci-fi franchises, like Stargate, aren't getting any new content at all.

My conclusion from all of the above is this- even if you ignore the money-making aspect, Star Wars is doing quite well compared to other sci-fi franchises. Even in ideal circumstances, great artistic heights are only reached so often (the EU never reached those heights imo), and I think Star Wars is in a better position to reach those heights than any other sci-fi franchise out there. Particularly with the standalone and episodic films being produced concurrently, I think an inspired team could produce something great.

Why didn't the EU reach those heights?

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

Why didn't the EU reach those heights?

To be fair, I've read a lot less EU than many Star Wars fans, and I do think that tie-in fiction in general can get a bad rap. So it isn't intended as a slight, it's just that none of it that I've read (and none of Trek EU for that matter) reaches the level of the best of Asimov, Clarke, Phillip K. Dick, et al.

Or to put it another way, the best Star Wars movies are top 10 in the sci-fi genre and arguably among the best films of all time. I wouldn't put any EU material in my top 10 sci-fi novels.

On the other hand, if you're counting video games that's a different matter for me. There are a few Star Wars games that are among the best ever made (X-Wing and Tie Fighter come to mind). You could say the same with board games.

Finally, the EU does have inherent drawbacks imo, limitations that it shares with tie-in fiction in general. A writer is tied to a property and continuity that isn't their own creation and vision, so he or she is stuck playing in someone else's sandbox. There's also the matter of translating ideas with an audio-visual element to a different medium. Then there's the natural tendency to overdo it with continuity and connections to what was seen on screen.

[Ordo]

I asked a question. No idea why did you decipher an aggressive tone.

I'd already answered your question before you asked it in previous discussions on this topic, and I would answer it again in my reply to your question about my thoughts on good EU titles. Since despite all that you still asked the question I provided what I thought was an appropriate reply.

And for the Han Solo Anthology here's some more information: http://makingstarwars.net/2017/06/_star ... ted_style/

Matters had already reached a boiling point in mid-June when Phil Lord and Chris Miller, co-directors of the still-untitled young Han Solo movie, were in the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon but didn’t start shooting until 1 p.m. That day the two used only three different setups — that is, three variations on camera placement — as opposed to the 12 to 15 that Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy had expected, according to sources with knowledge of the situation. Not only was the going slow, but the few angles that had been shot did not provide a wealth of options to use in editing the movie.

That is....concerning, and goes a long way to explaining why these two were let go.

According to Masters’ source, the Millennium Falcon shoot only cemented thoughts from around the company that Lord and Miller were not “decisive” in their role as co-directors.

This led, Masters wrote, to a situation where “[p]roduction department heads began to complain. While the pair appeared to listen when told of festering problems, this person says their approach did not change.”

As I understand it a lot of production companies were courting these two...I wonder if that swelled their heads a bit and they decided they could do as they wished on the Han Solo film?

The co-directors’ approach to Han Solo–as portrayed by Alden Ehrenreich–led to shots straight out of Kasdan’s script. Then the pair filmed several more improvisational takes for each scene. Keep in mind, Ehrenreich’s name popped up in some media reports as another member of the crew left perplexed by his directors.

All of those takes then made their way back to Lucasfilm, where Kennedy and Co. first sought to support the directors, even going as far to hire an acting coach for Ehrenreich late in the filming.

Improve is kind of Lord and Millers style (as I understand it) and that's worked well for them with comedians whose job it is to be funny on the spot. I'm guessing that kind off the cuff improve is not Alden's forte which would be fine if they tried it a few times and then stopped when that became clear...however it sounds like they kept doing it which is a problem.

[GandALF]

Why didn't the EU reach those heights?

To be fair, I've read a lot less EU than many Star Wars fans, and I do think that tie-in fiction in general can get a bad rap. So it isn't intended as a slight, it's just that none of it that I've read (and none of Trek EU for that matter) reaches the level of the best of Asimov, Clarke, Phillip K. Dick, et al.

Or to put it another way, the best Star Wars movies are top 10 in the sci-fi genre and arguably among the best films of all time. I wouldn't put any EU material in my top 10 sci-fi novels.

On the other hand, if you're counting video games that's a different matter for me. There are a few Star Wars games that are among the best ever made (X-Wing and Tie Fighter come to mind). You could say the same with board games.

Finally, the EU does have inherent drawbacks imo, limitations that it shares with tie-in fiction in general. A writer is tied to a property and continuity that isn't their own creation and vision, so he or she is stuck playing in someone else's sandbox. There's also the matter of translating ideas with an audio-visual element to a different medium. Then there's the natural tendency to overdo it with continuity and connections to what was seen on screen.

I think the appeal of the old EU was due more to the ambition in its world-building rather than the quality of any one story, like how Darth Krayt goes from being a minor side Jedi around TPM to ruling the galaxy after being shaped by the subsequent ~150 years of events. It was messy and inevitably became impenetrable to non-neckbeards but it did try to go beyond being regular tie-in media.

[Karha of Honor]

Why didn't the EU reach those heights?

To be fair, I've read a lot less EU than many Star Wars fans, and I do think that tie-in fiction in general can get a bad rap. So it isn't intended as a slight, it's just that none of it that I've read (and none of Trek EU for that matter) reaches the level of the best of Asimov, Clarke, Phillip K. Dick, et al.

Or to put it another way, the best Star Wars movies are top 10 in the sci-fi genre and arguably among the best films of all time. I wouldn't put any EU material in my top 10 sci-fi novels.

On the other hand, if you're counting video games that's a different matter for me. There are a few Star Wars games that are among the best ever made (X-Wing and Tie Fighter come to mind). You could say the same with board games.

Finally, the EU does have inherent drawbacks imo, limitations that it shares with tie-in fiction in general. A writer is tied to a property and continuity that isn't their own creation and vision, so he or she is stuck playing in someone else's sandbox. There's also the matter of translating ideas with an audio-visual element to a different medium. Then there's the natural tendency to overdo it with continuity and connections to what was seen on screen.

By the end they were opening up some really interesting new eras.

[The Romulan Republic]

So, finally got to see The Last Jedi's teaser on the big screen. It looks so much better- caught a number of cool little details I missed seeing it on a computer monitor.