Why are men the ones to screw everything up in fiction?

[Yukaphile]

Was reading through some King of the Hill messageboards, and was frankly surprised that people were happy Peggy was the one who was stupid and self-absorbed, because "usually it's the men who mess everything up in fiction." This was very sexist, imo, because I feel as if it's WANTING women to fail because they're angry men are shown that way. That said, this only applies more to modern sitcoms than anything else. Outside sitcoms, women and men screw up equally, and given that, even if you take something like, say, Everybody Loves Raymond, Debra has more than her fair share of screw-ups, so yeah, just seems like sexism to me, and that perhaps they misworded it - what it seems like they really dislike is presenting over-the-top and exaggerated stereotypes about how men are ignorant, but also ignore that side-by-side with that is the stereotype that women are shrill and hysterical. It made me curious what your guys' thoughts would be and if we could get a discussion going on this?

[Darth Wedgius]

It's the times. It's OK to drag down white people and men, and white men are double-worthy targets. I don't understand the motivation, but it's there, and the entertainment industry seems full of it. Combine that with the desire to show women and minorities in a positive light, and this is what you get. Naturally some people (probably a lot of white men, but not exclusively so) are going to resent it.

[Karha of Honor]

It's the times. It's OK to drag down white people and men, and white men are double-worthy targets. I don't understand the motivation, but it's there, and the entertainment industry seems full of it. Combine that with the desire to show women and minorities in a positive light, and this is what you get. Naturally some people (probably a lot of white men, but not exclusively so) are going to resent it.

They are destroying their own IP farm...

Books and comics are way cheaper so...

TV series... That's complicated...

Good times are coming long term.

[Darth Wedgius]

It's the times. It's OK to drag down white people and men, and white men are double-worthy targets. I don't understand the motivation, but it's there, and the entertainment industry seems full of it. Combine that with the desire to show women and minorities in a positive light, and this is what you get. Naturally some people (probably a lot of white men, but not exclusively so) are going to resent it.

They are destroying their own IP farm...

Books and comics are way cheaper so...

TV series... That's complicated...

Good times are coming long term.

In the long term, this might have a positive impact. Whites and men learning what it's like to be ridiculed and discriminated against for being white and/or men, not in a textbook way but in a personal way. Possibly some people learning how easy it is to fall into that kind of racist and sexist thinking as well, but I have less hope for that when it's easier to think of people opposing discrimination as "Nazis" and stop thinking.

But that's assuming we can ever get to treating people like individuals. It seems we always have people who have a strong drive to look down on someone, and it's only the "someone" that changes.

[Yukaphile]

I mean, look at the Harry Potter model, where girls drugging and then date-raping boys is seen as "harmless and innocent." Where women seem to reign in control perhaps a bit too much in some ways even if it's not a matriarchy (Mrs. Weasley, anyone?). According to Jim and Everybody Loves Raymond which thrive off bullshit gender stereotypes. I think that is less magnified outside the fictional sphere of influence, however, in that misandry also goes hand-in-hand alongside misogyny.

[Karha of Honor]

I mean, look at the Harry Potter model, where girls drugging and then date-raping boys is seen as "harmless and innocent."

With a strapon or...?

[Yukaphile]

Stop quoting me if you've blocked me, Slash. That's why I've been ignoring you. I could elaborate on that, but I won't.

[Admiral X]

What about the rest of us who haven't bothered to watch all the movies or read all the books?

[Yukaphile]

My point stands. I could go over examples from Harry Potter if you wish, though. I bet clearspira would be familiar with them too.

[Karha of Honor]

Stop quoting me if you've blocked me, Slash. That's why I've been ignoring you. I could elaborate on that, but I won't.

Fix that in the software if you want.