My (mostly) unspoiled watch of Babylon 5

For all topics regarding speculative fiction of every stripe. Otherwise known as the Geek Cave.
Independent George
Officer
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:08 am

Re: My (mostly) unspoiled watch of Babylon 5

Post by Independent George »

So, something else I forgot to mention - it was only after reviewing the episode titles to post here that I realized that I missed The Gathering; it's listed on Prime as a bonus rather than the pilot, so I actually started the show with Midnight on the Firing Line. I'll have to go back to watch it, but I already started on S2.

S2, E1-E3: Points of Departure, Revelations, The Geometry of Shadows

So, right off the bat, the episode description spoils me: "Babylon 5 gets a new leader, Captain John Sheridan". It's not a big deal since I already knew that somebody major got replaced due to health issues, but I can't help but find it amusing.

Anyway, right off the bat, there is already a different feel to the show that I can't quite put my finger on. Our introduction to Sheridan is a bit awkward (as it should be for such a sudden transition), but I don't like how it felt like half the episode was devoted to people talking about Sheridan instead of just letting us interact with people. Then again, it was the 90s, and this kind of introduction-by-exposition was the norm; people weren't expected to pick up on things as fast, and they just replaced the lead, so we needed an episode for us to see how awesome he is by solving everything singlehandedly. It's clumsy by modern standards, but I'm old enough to remember why they did it.

That out of the way, I'm really glad that Franklin remembered his magic healing device, though I wonder why he didn't have Rosen walk him through its use instead of just having him read her notes. For Garibaldi's sake, I really hope her logbook is nothing like mine back when I was a biochem student. For all my snark, I do like that they maintained continuity here, and this was a rather huge deal for the 90s.

Also in continuity is Londo's Faustian bargain with what I assume are the Shadows, along with the revelation that humans share/inherit Minbari souls. We saw back during Soul Hunter that Minbari souls are tangible things, and the death of Dukat (no relation to the Cardassian, presumably) was a major event for them. I assume The Gathering explains the details of how that first contact went so wrong that it touched off a war. G'Kar returns a changed man, and even offers a reluctant olive branch to Londo, who promptly transfers that intelligence to his handler and gets the Narn ship destroyed. It does bother me a bit that (1) the reconnaissance ship's destruction doesn't prompt even more suspicion from Narn leadership rather than less, (2) there is no sensor or telemetry data from G'Kar's ship proving something is out there, even if it's not hard evidence of a tentacled Elder race. One might fault him for going to the Council before he had his evidence lined up, but that to me seems like an attempt at diplomacy - he explicitly says that this is an existential threat that requires unity, so that is him trying to cooperate. He did it badly, but it seems well-intentioned. Londo, in turn, is much more interesting to me now that he's got a purpose other than being a drunken buffoon. It seems obvious from the outside that he's being played, but it's also completely in character that he's so blinded by ambition and glory that he can't see it.

We also get confirmation that Psi-Corps pretty much controls the government from behind the scenes. I had assumed it was the racists from S1, but Psi-Corps makes so much more sense. The only thing I'm not sure about is why Sheridan is put in charge of the station, rather than someone tied in to either the Psi-Corps cabal or the Home Guard (who seem to be the corps' brownshirts), but that is explicitly brought up a few times; that looks more like a major plot hook rather than a plot hole.

Anyway, there are definite improvements, but I have one more nitpick that I can't help but cite: I think it's a cop-out that Sheridan's wife had planned to cancel their anniversary date before getting killed. It was a bad coincidence that no-one could have predicted, and his feelings of guilt are completely misplaced; rather than telling a story of trying to move past a tragic event even though he knows rationally he's not responsible, we get a magic resolution where he has physical proof that he's not responsible. The unfortunate implication here is that if she herself hadn't wanted to postpone things, then he would have been responsible for her death. This effectively substitutes what could have been good character exploration for a magic wand that erases the past. It's a minor subplot, but a bad writing decision nevertheless.
Independent George
Officer
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:08 am

Re: My (mostly) unspoiled watch of Babylon 5

Post by Independent George »

Yukaphile wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:15 pm It's still creepy as hell. What a smooth talker, eh? To treat poor Lyta as a prostitute...

Wait till you get to Season 2. I have serious issues with how the Psi Corps' breeding program is presented on screen.
So, I think I got some signals crossed; I just watched The Gathering now, and... yeah, that scene between G'Kar and Lyta was pretty yuck. I thought you were referring to the scene where he offered sanctuary to the young telepath that was being pursued by Psi-Corps. Yes, he was clearly self-interested there, but unlike the scene with Lyta, there was nothing sexual or gross going on. G'Kar is clearly much more villainous here than he is once the series proper starts, but, interestingly, it's still mostly within character.

The differences between the pilot and the series is interesting. There are clear plot hooks for the divide between the Minbari castes, Narn-Centauri relations, and Sinclair's missing time is discussed far more explicitly than we get later on. On the other hand, Sinclair's relationship makes his sudden romance with Catherine stand out as even more contrived.

There are still multiple cases of people acting stupidly for dramatic effect which bug me - G'kar berating Delenn when he's trying to bring her to his side was stupid for an ambassador, but kind of in-character for him; he seems the sort used to getting what he wants and throwing a tantrum when he doesn't. Delenn choking him as a response is both out of character and utterly ridiculous. Londo actually makes much more sense in the pilot than he does with more screen time in S1; the Centauri clearly sent him to B5 as a means of getting him as far away as possible. Also, the assassin deciding to sabotage Kosh's life support with the doctor still present - instead of taking him out while his back was turned and then killing Kosh at his leisure - was utterly ridiculous and immersion-breaking. For that matter, how a human doctor who knows absolutely nothing about Vorlon pysiology was supposed to cure a poisoning is also beyond me. I can sort of believe the Minbari might know what kind of poison would work, but it's far easier to kill someone than to cure them.

Another thing that bothers me is why even renegade Minbari would want to do something as provocative as assassinating a Vorlon ambassador, even if the plan was to frame Sinclair. Given that the Vorlons were about to wipe out the station (including representatives from other races) over the slight; you would think there would be major repercussions against the Minbari, too. Or, for that matter, over the humans opening Kosh's environment suit (assuming they don't know about the psychic scan, which seems unlikely to me). This seems like it might be addressed in the future, though; the stupidity of the assassin was just the writers not caring. Given that they replaced the doctor anyway, it would have made far more sense just kill him off (thus also preventing anyone on earth learning what he saw) and then bring in Franklin in the next episode.
User avatar
Durandal_1707
Captain
Posts: 769
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:24 am

Re: My (mostly) unspoiled watch of Babylon 5

Post by Durandal_1707 »

Independent George wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:17 pmGiven that they replaced the doctor anyway, it would have made far more sense just kill him off (thus also preventing anyone on earth learning what he saw) and then bring in Franklin in the next episode.
They didn't know at the time that they were going to lose Bad Hitchcock Impression Guy (or a bunch of the rest of the cast, for that matter—Takashima was originally going to be the traitor that shot Garibaldi in the back in the S1 finale).
User avatar
Yukaphile
Overlord
Posts: 8778
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
Location: Rabid Posting World
Contact:

Re: My (mostly) unspoiled watch of Babylon 5

Post by Yukaphile »

You should progress to Season 2.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Independent George
Officer
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:08 am

Re: My (mostly) unspoiled watch of Babylon 5

Post by Independent George »

Durandal_1707 wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:51 pm They didn't know at the time that they were going to lose Bad Hitchcock Impression Guy (or a bunch of the rest of the cast, for that matter—Takashima was originally going to be the traitor that shot Garibaldi in the back in the S1 finale).
1. Point taken. I shouldn't underestimate the logistics of production.
2. Goddammit, now "Bad Hitchcock Impression Guy" is stuck in my head.
User avatar
Yukaphile
Overlord
Posts: 8778
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
Location: Rabid Posting World
Contact:

Re: My (mostly) unspoiled watch of Babylon 5

Post by Yukaphile »

Season 3 is the best, imo.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
User avatar
Durandal_1707
Captain
Posts: 769
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:24 am

Re: My (mostly) unspoiled watch of Babylon 5

Post by Durandal_1707 »

Independent George wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:33 am 1. Point taken. I shouldn't underestimate the logistics of production.
Indeed, I suspect that this sort of thing is the reason a lot of shows just wing it, like the BSG reboot, instead of having a multi-year plan like B5 did. A TV show is different from a novel; you don't know how many seasons you're going to get, you don't know if the technology to make Mira Furlan's voice sound masculine is going to sound terrible, you don't know if your lead actor is going to run into mental health issues that force him to quit.

Re: that Takashima thing—if you freeze the DVD for "The Gathering" on just the right frame when the Minbari assassin is opening a door and look closely, you can see that he's using Takashima's ID card. It's not the last time that JMS would drop in little Easter Eggs to go "eh? eh? eh?" with later, only to have them get messed up by casting changes.
Independent George
Officer
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:08 am

Re: My (mostly) unspoiled watch of Babylon 5

Post by Independent George »

S2 Episodes 4-5: A Distant Star, The Long Dark

Whoah. I feel like the writers looked back on S1, and really broke down what worked and what didn't, and then decided to try addressing them directly in S2. Here we have:

1. Franklin gets a personality! Of course, that personality is that of an overbearing, mircomanaging busybody, but I can respect that. I personally preferred when Bashir was well-intentioned but smug and smarmy junior officer than when he became a genetic superman. Franklin means well, and it's obvious the crew likes him well enough to try and respect his wishes, but he needs to respect boundaries. Like not hitting on a woman who just found she's a widow. It's good that he was self-aware enough to realize this is kind of bad; you know you're in a bad place when you're copying Sterling Archer's playbook. Plus, he just had that romantic dinner with Garibaldi. Keep it in your pants, Doc.
2. Continuity! Ivanova is still injured from the race war, Garibaldi is still recovering from being shot.
3. Delegation! Neither Sheridan, Garibaldi, nor Ivanova take part in the search & rescue for the Cortez, but instead they actually do their job as staff officers, and let the pilots do their jobs. I approve.
4. Black guy dies first, and there was much rejoicing. I know that's unfair, but it was just so blatant, even if he does get a little memorial at the end. At least now we have recurring fighter pilots as well as security officers. I approve.
5. I did not expect this show to be cosmic horror, but that's what the Shadows are shaping up to be. And I approve.
6. I love the exploration of the weirdness of hyperspace, and how horrifying it must be to get lost there. And there are things living in there. I want more.
7. G'kar has a wood print of the eldritch abominations. I hope we get some exploration of what early encounters the various alien races had with them. The Narn, the Minbari, and the unnamed race at the council meeting all have legends about them. This would be a good time for the humans to try and learn about them.

Ok, I'm officially hooked.
Independent George
Officer
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:08 am

Re: My (mostly) unspoiled watch of Babylon 5

Post by Independent George »

One thing I forgot to address earlier, because I didn't know how to do so: the technomages. They are clearly going to return, but I'm not sure how I feel about them. Ok, so they use technology in a manner like magic. Why? What is different about a technomage versus a laboratory? Presumably this will tie in to the hyperadvanced ancient aliens, but... I'm not against the mysticism in principal, so long as it is justified in-universe, and it hasn't been. It's still early, though, and I expect they will get to it eventually.

They're doing a great job with the eldritch horrors straddling Clark's third law, and this has the potential tie in thematically. I just need more than what we've gotten so far - all we've really gotten is mysterious and portentous for the sake of mysterious and portentous. From what I've seen with the lorebuilding so far, though, I do think there will be a payoff. The line to Londo about his victims calling his name was really well executed.
User avatar
Yukaphile
Overlord
Posts: 8778
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am
Location: Rabid Posting World
Contact:

Re: My (mostly) unspoiled watch of Babylon 5

Post by Yukaphile »

IIRC they only time they return is in one of the DVD releases. But then, I'm still in Season 4, so what can you do? Do you mind spoilers? Because this is answered by the books and not the TV show.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Post Reply