Is the backlash against Trump... overblown?

[CharlesPhipps]

There's a racist slur that is "You're one of the good ones" or "you're a credit to your people." The statement that not all members of Group X are bad is actually still pretty goddamn racist and has long been recognized as such because it assumes a large chunk of minority X are still criminal monsters. Moreso than Group Y.

Also, Trump's racism isn't something people should take from his Presidency. They should take it from the fact that he did his best to prevent Native Americans from having casinos, his policies of excluding blacks from his real estate, his work to drive out the poor from New York with Giuliani, and his casino managers removing all black dealers whenever he visited. Plus his full page add saying the Central Park Five should be put to death.

Trump doesn't have to wear a KKK robe to be a horrifying bigot.

[Darth Wedgius]

There's a racist slur that is "You're one of the good ones" or "you're a credit to your people." The statement that not all members of Group X are bad is actually still pretty goddamn racist and has long been recognized as such because it assumes a large chunk of minority X are still criminal monsters. Moreso than Group Y.

That doesn't make saying that there are good illegal aliens a slur against illegal aliens. And, again he didn't say all Mexicans; he was talking about illegal immigrants from Mexico. Maybe you missed that part.

Also, Trump's racism isn't something people should take from his Presidency. They should take it from the fact that he did his best to prevent Native Americans from having casinos, his policies of excluding blacks from his real estate, his work to drive out the poor from New York with Giuliani, and his casino managers removing all black dealers whenever he visited. Plus his full page add saying the Central Park Five should be put to death.

Trump doesn't have to wear a KKK robe to be a horrifying bigot.

The first is a business interest, the second an unproven charge he settled, the third not racist, and the fourth an allegation of other people's perceptions of him, and the fifth not racist. Criticizing people of color when you think they assaulted and raped a jogger isn't racism, it's disliking assault and rape.

And none of that ties to my original post, which was misuse of a quote from Trump by NPCs.

[Yukaphile]

@Darth Wedgius I've met many right of center Latinos who think he was applying what the cartels do to most Mexicans. He is from that era where you blame a whole group of the actions of a few.

[CharlesPhipps]

The treatment of legal refugees is particularly galling as the United States has a policy of accepting them and they're people fleeing the cartels.

[Darth Wedgius]

@Darth Wedgius I've met many right of center Latinos who think he was applying what the cartels do to most Mexicans. He is from that era where you blame a whole group of the actions of a few.

What they feel is not important. What he said is what he actually said, not what they felt that he said.

[Darth Wedgius]

The treatment of legal refugees is particularly galling as the United States has a policy of accepting them and they're people fleeing the cartels.

If you believe the acting Homeland Security administrator as of June, 90% of those seeking asylum skip their court hearings. Sure, even some of those people are really refugees who just don't want to go through the process, but how many? Do you trust that all of them are really refugees? With that kind of rate, I don't see much choice but to detain them until their hearing. Unless you're an open-border advocate, of course.

[CharlesPhipps]

The treatment of legal refugees is particularly galling as the United States has a policy of accepting them and they're people fleeing the cartels.

If you believe the acting Homeland Security administrator as of June, 90% of those seeking asylum skip their court hearings. Sure, even some of those people are really refugees who just don't want to go through the process, but how many? Do you trust that all of them are really refugees? With that kind of rate, I don't see much choice but to detain them until their hearing. Unless you're an open-border advocate, of course.

If you believe the RACES legal group, they almost all attend their court hearings and have video footage of the overpacked overworked legal system. I also believe, yes, they are all refugees. Detaining them for their court hearing is also detaining them for not breaking the law...yet.

And if you're wondering why I believe they're all refugees.

The answer is because the cartels aren't going to put themselves under legal scrutiny when they have tunnels under the border and can use boats. Actual criminals aren't going to announce themselves at the border.

[CmdrKing]

So originally I was gonna note that the backlash against Trump isn't strong enough: Bush gained nigh-dictatorial powers and started multiple bloody, crusade-esque forever wars basically through sheer incompetence and being swept up in a wave of national panic. Trump wants to expand even beyond those powers because he openly admires the ability of dictators to be without criticism or oversight, and the only thing actually stopping him is the perception of backlash. So that the backlash isn't universal and constant is tacit admission a visible percentage of the population want a dictator.

but this is more meaningful.

So (1) it doesn't mean all Mexicans, and (2) it acknowledges that even some of the illegal immigrants are good people.

But not matter how often this is pointed out, NPCs will continue to claim it means Trump is racist. Because, IMHO, the facts stopped meaning anything to them in favor of their fantasy world where they're fighting a huge tide of white supremacy.

Apparently this needs explained.

Your basic premises in justifying current border policies is thus:
1. Refugees are coming illegally (they aren't)
2. We must conduct full checks on the intent and dangerousness of these refugees and immigrants (we'll come back to this)
3. Known criminals like syndicates could mix in with refugee populations (Already addressed)
Therefore
C. This is fine.

So that middle one sounds cool, most people buy that yeah.
But let's rephrase that.
"Refugees are inherently dangerous and must be presumed guilty and locked up until proven innocent"
On basis of their national origin.
Those nations being various countries of latin america, considered in the US as a distinct ethnic group.

"People of this National (Ethnic) background are guilty until proven innocent" is textbook racism. That someone would defend it as somehow not racist is quite damning. That apparently tens of millions of Americans are cheering it on instead of condemning the president and political party spouting it as a basic platform of their political agenda is horrifying.

Edit: fuck it, let's finish this thought.

So a meaningful percentage of the US voting populous is open to Dictator Trump. Another percentage claims that open racism in the name of excluding particular ethnic groups from the country is not racism and is desirable.
Where those two groups overlap, you have a group who wants to exercise dictatorial power in the name of creating a whiter nation.
When people claim Trump and his supporters are white supremacists? It's that group. They are white supremacists.

We can quibble about the size of that group, deriving an accurate snapshot of its size from existing voter data is tricky, but let's be clear: 100% of people who vote for Donald Trump in 2020 are in fact white supremacists.

[Darth Wedgius]

The treatment of legal refugees is particularly galling as the United States has a policy of accepting them and they're people fleeing the cartels.

If you believe the acting Homeland Security administrator as of June, 90% of those seeking asylum skip their court hearings. Sure, even some of those people are really refugees who just don't want to go through the process, but how many? Do you trust that all of them are really refugees? With that kind of rate, I don't see much choice but to detain them until their hearing. Unless you're an open-border advocate, of course.

If you believe the RACES legal group, they almost all attend their court hearings and have video footage of the overpacked overworked legal system. I also believe, yes, they are all refugees. Detaining them for their court hearing is also detaining them for not breaking the law...yet.

And if you're wondering why I believe they're all refugees.

The answer is because the cartels aren't going to put themselves under legal scrutiny when they have tunnels under the border and can use boats. Actual criminals aren't going to announce themselves at the border.

There is a difference between "cartel members" and "anyone not a refugee," though perhaps I should have specified a refugee as someone seeking asylum from persecution, not someone wanting video games and big macs.

And not everyone detained announced themselves at the border, did they?

[Darth Wedgius]

So originally I was gonna note that the backlash against Trump isn't strong enough: Bush gained nigh-dictatorial powers and started multiple bloody, crusade-esque forever wars basically through sheer incompetence and being swept up in a wave of national panic. Trump wants to expand even beyond those powers because he openly admires the ability of dictators to be without criticism or oversight, and the only thing actually stopping him is the perception of backlash. So that the backlash isn't universal and constant is tacit admission a visible percentage of the population want a dictator.

but this is more meaningful.

So (1) it doesn't mean all Mexicans, and (2) it acknowledges that even some of the illegal immigrants are good people.

But not matter how often this is pointed out, NPCs will continue to claim it means Trump is racist. Because, IMHO, the facts stopped meaning anything to them in favor of their fantasy world where they're fighting a huge tide of white supremacy.

Apparently this needs explained.

Your basic premises in justifying current border policies is thus:
1. Refugees are coming illegally (they aren't)
2. We must conduct full checks on the intent and dangerousness of these refugees and immigrants (we'll come back to this)
3. Known criminals like syndicates could mix in with refugee populations (Already addressed)
Therefore
C. This is fine.

So that middle one sounds cool, most people buy that yeah.
But let's rephrase that.
"Refugees are inherently dangerous and must be presumed guilty and locked up until proven innocent"
On basis of their national origin.
Those nations being various countries of latin america, considered in the US as a distinct ethnic group.

"People of this National (Ethnic) background are guilty until proven innocent" is textbook racism. That someone would defend it as somehow not racist is quite damning. That apparently tens of millions of Americans are cheering it on instead of condemning the president and political party spouting it as a basic platform of their political agenda is horrifying.

Edit: fuck it, let's finish this thought.

So a meaningful percentage of the US voting populous is open to Dictator Trump. Another percentage claims that open racism in the name of excluding particular ethnic groups from the country is not racism and is desirable.
Where those two groups overlap, you have a group who wants to exercise dictatorial power in the name of creating a whiter nation.
When people claim Trump and his supporters are white supremacists? It's that group. They are white supremacists.

We can quibble about the size of that group, deriving an accurate snapshot of its size from existing voter data is tricky, but let's be clear: 100% of people who vote for Donald Trump in 2020 are in fact white supremacists.

That's some stretchin' ya got there, Cmdr!

People being detained are not necessarily refugees with any right to asylum. Crossing the border illegally is, um, illegal. That makes people sneaking over criminals. And those things you said were dealt with... weren't, or at least not adequately.

Let's examine the other "logic" in what you said. You didn't establish that Trump is trying to keep out illegal immigrants because most of them aren't white. And you gave no reason whatsoever for your conclusion that 100% of the people who vote Trump 2020 are white supremacists, you just kind of flung that one out there.

And this is what passes for thought for much of the left nowadays. That's kind of sad.