TOS - Is There in Truth No Beauty?

[TheStarWarsTrek]

You know, there's something that's always bugged me about the whole "if you look at this creature you'll go mad!" trope, but I hadn't been able to put my finger on it until now. It's that it treats "going mad" like a spell or status effect in an RPG. I mean, think about PTSD. Not everyone who suffers a traumatic event has PTSD, and not everyone who has it handles it the same way. So why should every single person who looks at these creatures experience the exact same symptoms in the same way, without question? Seeing something disturbing or unsettling can cause trauma, but fiction always seems to treat it like a magic, madness inducing spell. The mention of the Gorgon was apt because it's as silly as saying someone can be so ugly that looking at them actually causes you harm.

Although I guess it is a bit more understandable if it's supposed to be like a Q or Cthulhu type thing were the Medusans exist in dimensions we can't perceive or comprehend or something.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I'm not sure what prominent alien entails exactly, but as I think about it -

The wraiths if we're not counting the Founders.
The probe in ST IV.
Giant space stomach in Voyager S6 or 7 (and the cute little singing gremlins born in it).
The planet that clones Voyager in a couple of episodes out of mud.

A few more from TNG:

Farpoint Station.
The "Conspiracy" aliens.
The "ship had a baby" thing in that episode whose name I can't remember that had Vertiform City in it.

Now it's a party.

[Percysowner]

You know, there's something that's always bugged me about the whole "if you look at this creature you'll go mad!" trope, but I hadn't been able to put my finger on it until now. It's that it treats "going mad" like a spell or status effect in an RPG. I mean, think about PTSD. Not everyone who suffers a traumatic event has PTSD, and not everyone who has it handles it the same way. So why should every single person who looks at these creatures experience the exact same symptoms in the same way, without question? Seeing something disturbing or unsettling can cause trauma, but fiction always seems to treat it like a magic, madness inducing spell. The mention of the Gorgon was apt because it's as silly as saying someone can be so ugly that looking at them actually causes you harm.

The handwave I come up with is that the visuals somehow affect the nervous system. Just like flashing lights can cause some epileptics to suffer a seizure, the creature sends visual "signals" that cause the brain to misfire. I don't know why it would be a permanent state, but I suppose the misfire could be so severe that it caused actual brain damage. Too loud a noise can damage your hearing permanently. Looking into the sun can damage your eyes permanently. I suppose if the visual effect is strong enough it could cause permanent brain damage, although madness is a way to make it dramatic, so the victim can then go attack people in exciting ways.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

You know, there's something that's always bugged me about the whole "if you look at this creature you'll go mad!" trope, but I hadn't been able to put my finger on it until now. It's that it treats "going mad" like a spell or status effect in an RPG. I mean, think about PTSD. Not everyone who suffers a traumatic event has PTSD, and not everyone who has it handles it the same way. So why should every single person who looks at these creatures experience the exact same symptoms in the same way, without question? Seeing something disturbing or unsettling can cause trauma, but fiction always seems to treat it like a magic, madness inducing spell. The mention of the Gorgon was apt because it's as silly as saying someone can be so ugly that looking at them actually causes you harm.

The handwave I come up with is that the visuals somehow affect the nervous system. Just like flashing lights can cause some epileptics to suffer a seizure, the creature sends visual "signals" that cause the brain to misfire. I don't know why it would be a permanent state, but I suppose the misfire could be so severe that it caused actual brain damage. Too loud a noise can damage your hearing permanently. Looking into the sun can damage your eyes permanently. I suppose if the visual effect is strong enough it could cause permanent brain damage, although madness is a way to make it dramatic, so the victim can then go attack people in exciting ways.

But not everybody's epileptic. That was covered in his point about PTSD.

[TheStarWarsTrek]

True not everybody is epileptic, but if it physically damages the brain or nerves somehow, that makes a lot more sense than saying everyone who sees the Medusans has the exact same type of mental breakdown.

Or, we know that psychic/mental powers are a thing in Star Trek, and Vulcans have to have physical contact to do a mind meld. It might be a bit far fetched, but maybe the Medusans have a similar thing they can't control that's triggered by site instead of touch?

[Durandal_1707]

True not everybody is epileptic, but if it physically damages the brain or nerves somehow, that makes a lot more sense than saying everyone who sees the Medusans has the exact same type of mental breakdown.

How do we know everyone who sees them goes crazy in the exact same way? We only saw it happen to two people, which isn't much of a sample. For all we know, some people can look at a Medusan and just start liking Neelix or voting Republican or thinking pineapple on pizza is a good idea or something.

[Mickey_Rat15]

You know, there's something that's always bugged me about the whole "if you look at this creature you'll go mad!" trope, but I hadn't been able to put my finger on it until now.

It is a trope with a long history, including the Bible. God supposedly only showed his hindquarters to Moses because a mortal man could not bear to see the full Glory of God revealed. Which puts an interesting spin on Miranda's question that perhaps the Medusans are too beautiful to see.

[Mickey_Rat15]

Kirk: "Haven't we met somewhere before?"

Miranda: "No, but my identical third cousin once removed was posted on this ship last year. She warned me about you."

Roddenberry with the IDIC symbol, proving once again his concept of the Ferengi was self-caricature, if unintentional.

[Wargriffin]

I mean in certain mythologies

Some Super natural Creatures WERE to beautiful to behold and would cause death not out of fear, but by the sheer notion that Their Existence was the highest pinnacle you could see and your will to live would simply stop.


Hell in Warhammer follows this principle.

Slaanesh, the Chaos God/Goddess'Fuck the Imperials' is stated to be So Beautiful that the glimpse of its true form robs the person of any desire to leave its presence would drive the person to lethargic Death

Hence why None return from Slaanesh's Bed Chamber

[TheStarWarsTrek]

How do we know everyone who sees them goes crazy in the exact same way? We only saw it happen to two people, which isn't much of a sample. For all we know, some people can look at a Medusan and just start liking Neelix or voting Republican or thinking pineapple on pizza is a good idea or something.

But by the same token there should be plenty of people who don't go crazy at all, but say "eh, i've seen worse things browsing the internet".

It is a trope with a long history, including the Bible. God supposedly only showed his hindquarters to Moses because a mortal man could not bear to see the full Glory of God revealed. Which puts an interesting spin on Miranda's question that perhaps the Medusans are too beautiful to see.

But IIRC it's not that seeing God makes you go crazy, but that you just die.

Anyway I think it helps prove my point, that madness is treated like a magic spell, that a lot of these examples are explicitly supernatural, not science fiction.