DIS - Brother

[Worffan101]

I think Season 2 was a big improvement over Season 1.

I actually felt the opposite. At least season 1 attempted to have a point. Season 2 attempted halfheartedly to pretend to have a point while chasing trends as fast as possible.

[Karha of Honor]

I think Season 2 was a big improvement over Season 1.

You write decent fiction or something...

How can you say that?

[Mecha82]

People can say that something is better or worse without needing to write fiction themselves regardless do you agree with that person's opinion or not.

[Deledrius]

I think Season 2 was a big improvement over Season 1.

You write decent fiction or something...

How can you say that?

Because season 2 was better than season 1?

Or, I mean, maybe it's an opinion (but I think we could probably find some mutually-agreeable objective measures where this holds nonetheless).

[CharlesPhipps]

I think Season 2 was a big improvement over Season 1.

You write decent fiction or something...

How can you say that?

I'm doing my review of both seasons now but here's my basic thoughts.

Season One feels like it was written by three different showrunners and then the Frankensteinian corpse of the remains resurrected by a CBS lightning bolt. I don't know what the shenanigans were behind the scenes but I know there were plenty of them. My assumption is that the original plans were to do a season of Klingon War shenanigans before it was re-written to be more episodic then re-written again to have the big Mirror Universe finale. So, it was a mess from beginning to end but it was an enjoyable mess for me.

I mean, my dislike of the Season is pretty much the same as any other Trekkie regarding the show. I didn't like the Klingon costuming, too much focus on Michael, I was iffy on the Discovery appearance, and I generally felt the season was too much Edgelord Trek. It eventually rebounded by the end with the ending of the Klingon war feeling like things were on the right foot.

I give it a 7 out of 10 and that's because there were some great ideas in-between some really terrible ones.

Season Two, I felt was an improvement over Season One because it was one coherent story that played into itself. The Red Angel plotline also wasn't a rehash of previous Trek ideas. It felt a bit more like Doctor Who to be honest with shades of "The Bad Wolf" plotline from the 9th Doctor's brief tenure but if you're going to steal/be inspired by another sci-fi property then there are worse ones to do. Hell, it's not like it couldn't have been come up independently as well.

I also felt like we actually had a decent amount of payoff for the Spock and Michael plotline. I have a high tolerance for retcons in Star Trek because time travel and retcons are a casual thing in the setting (same for Doctor Who). Honestly, I may have liked it because it did have someone calling Michael on her shit repeatedly.

Really, Star Trek is always about character for me and Pike's addition as well as Peck's Spock provide a good deal of balance to the cast. Really, the show was in desperate need of a "regulation" Star Trek Captain or officer to contrast to the rest of the pirate ship and Pike was a great addition for that. Peck is also a great actor even if his Spock isn't Nimoy's or Quinto's.

As for Section 31/Control, I've always been a fan of them. I've loved them since Deep Space Nine and enjoyed the plot when it was in the Expanded Universe novels. They did a much better job with the show than in the books (where the entire Federation was under its control at one point).

We also got plenty more stuff from other Bridge Crew and Crew members. Hugh, Detmer, Airian, and others actually have names and lines now!

So, it's now an 8 instead of a 7. It didn't reinvent the wheel but it's clear they were paying attention and the improvements were significant, IMHO.

I will say the "twist" of the Red Angel was dumb as hell and another attempt to make Michael the center of the galaxy.

[Karha of Honor]

I think Season 2 was a big improvement over Season 1.

You write decent fiction or something...

How can you say that?

I'm doing my review of both seasons now but here's my basic thoughts.

Season One feels like it was written by three different showrunners and then the Frankensteinian corpse of the remains resurrected by a CBS lightning bolt. I don't know what the shenanigans were behind the scenes but I know there were plenty of them. My assumption is that the original plans were to do a season of Klingon War shenanigans before it was re-written to be more episodic then re-written again to have the big Mirror Universe finale. So, it was a mess from beginning to end but it was an enjoyable mess for me.

I mean, my dislike of the Season is pretty much the same as any other Trekkie regarding the show. I didn't like the Klingon costuming, too much focus on Michael, I was iffy on the Discovery appearance, and I generally felt the season was too much Edgelord Trek. It eventually rebounded by the end with the ending of the Klingon war feeling like things were on the right foot.

I give it a 7 out of 10 and that's because there were some great ideas in-between some really terrible ones.

Season Two, I felt was an improvement over Season One because it was one coherent story that played into itself. The Red Angel plotline also wasn't a rehash of previous Trek ideas. It felt a bit more like Doctor Who to be honest with shades of "The Bad Wolf" plotline from the 9th Doctor's brief tenure but if you're going to steal/be inspired by another sci-fi property then there are worse ones to do. Hell, it's not like it couldn't have been come up independently as well.

I also felt like we actually had a decent amount of payoff for the Spock and Michael plotline. I have a high tolerance for retcons in Star Trek because time travel and retcons are a casual thing in the setting (same for Doctor Who). Honestly, I may have liked it because it did have someone calling Michael on her shit repeatedly.

Really, Star Trek is always about character for me and Pike's addition as well as Peck's Spock provide a good deal of balance to the cast. Really, the show was in desperate need of a "regulation" Star Trek Captain or officer to contrast to the rest of the pirate ship and Pike was a great addition for that. Peck is also a great actor even if his Spock isn't Nimoy's or Quinto's.

As for Section 31/Control, I've always been a fan of them. I've loved them since Deep Space Nine and enjoyed the plot when it was in the Expanded Universe novels. They did a much better job with the show than in the books (where the entire Federation was under its control at one point).

We also got plenty more stuff from other Bridge Crew and Crew members. Hugh, Detmer, Airian, and others actually have names and lines now!

So, it's now an 8 instead of a 7. It didn't reinvent the wheel but it's clear they were paying attention and the improvements were significant, IMHO.

I will say the "twist" of the Red Angel was dumb as hell and another attempt to make Michael the center of the galaxy.

Badass Section 31, promotes Mirror Universe Hitlerina and trusts her right away...

You talk about ideas, i don't hear a lot of praise for the execution of those ideas in season 2.

[CharlesPhipps]

Badass Section 31, promotes Mirror Universe Hitlerina and trusts her right away...

You talk about ideas, i don't hear a lot of praise for the execution of those ideas in season 2.

Section 31 is controlled by Skynet so I don't actually see what the problem is. It's kind of interesting how presentation changes matters because a lot of people are appalled and shocked by Terran Phillipa's role in the show. However, I don't see substantially any difference between her and Gul Dukat. She's an evil person on the same side as the "heroes" (for the time being). That's what makes her an interesting character.

Apparently, Michelle Yeoh prefers to vamp it up rather than be the paragon.

The whole point of S31 is that it's a bunch of shady people doing "whatever means necessary" to protect the Federation and then screwing it up horribly. The irony in this case is that the Empress thrives in this environment and is playing office politics to get ahead.

She's never not entertaining either.

[RobbyB1982]

show. However, I don't see substantially any difference between her and Gul Dukat. She's an evil person on the same side as the "heroes" (for the time being). That's what makes her an interesting character.

I think the key difference is we actually saw her nastiness on camera, in the present. Dukat's evils were in the past and we never really saw them personally, and he was a cog in the wheel, or claimed to be at least. He had a stint of presenting himself as decent before we saw his nastier side (when the writers realized they'd made him too likeable and had to reverse course). And anything Dukat did in the present was off camera.

If you actually tally up the atrocities and death counts they're both probably pretty close, but we also never saw Ducat eating the entrails of someone we'd seen a couple minutes earlier.

[CharlesPhipps]

I think the key difference is we actually saw her nastiness on camera, in the present. Dukat's evils were in the past and we never really saw them personally, and he was a cog in the wheel, or claimed to be at least. He had a stint of presenting himself as decent before we saw his nastier side (when the writers realized they'd made him too likeable and had to reverse course). And anything Dukat did in the present was off camera.

If you actually tally up the atrocities and death counts they're both probably pretty close, but we also never saw Ducat eating the entrails of someone we'd seen a couple minutes earlier.

Perhaps that is something viewers can't let go of and that's a fair point. On the other hand, I tend to think of the fact that Star Trek is a setting where a lot of evil characters do get off the hook for unforgivable things but our heroes do it because they do believe in peace as well as redemption. The Klingons, Dumar (Dukat has a chance but loses it), and so on. Even so, while the Empress is a cannibal--and that's pretty bad--90% of the people she kills on-camera are her fellow evil Terrans.

[BunBun299]

Badass Section 31, promotes Mirror Universe Hitlerina and trusts her right away...

You talk about ideas, i don't hear a lot of praise for the execution of those ideas in season 2.

Section 31 is controlled by Skynet so I don't actually see what the problem is. It's kind of interesting how presentation changes matters because a lot of people are appalled and shocked by Terran Phillipa's role in the show. However, I don't see substantially any difference between her and Gul Dukat. She's an evil person on the same side as the "heroes" (for the time being). That's what makes her an interesting character.

Apparently, Michelle Yeoh prefers to vamp it up rather than be the paragon.

The whole point of S31 is that it's a bunch of shady people doing "whatever means necessary" to protect the Federation and then screwing it up horribly. The irony in this case is that the Empress thrives in this environment and is playing office politics to get ahead.

She's never not entertaining either.

Yeah, I don't buy this interpretation of Section 31. For one, they're an organization so secret that only the top brass at Starfleet have even heard of them. Two, when they attempted to recruit Bashir, they deprived him of sleep, interrogated him at length, roll played a scenario on a holodeck to give him every reason to betray the Federation, even if he hadn't done so already. And then, when a mind probe they implanted in him detected no signs whatsoever ever disloyalty, they decided he was Section 31 material.

I do not buy for a moment that this organization would even consider femHitler for their super secret spy network. At best, they'd manipulate her into a suicide mission.