Admiral X wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:04 pm
Unfortunately in doing so, they destroyed Spock's character. One of the biggest failings of Abrams Trek is that the people making it didn't seem to understand that they were ruining one of the things that made Spock the icon that he is by making him practically human.
I'm not sure I agree as this is the one occasion I could see Spock unleash himself. After all, a bit like Spiderman, Spock unleashed would kill most sapients. Ergo he wouldn't and just would use the neck pinch.
These movies were supposed to be prequels to the five year mission, and now 10 years since the first movie came out, the actors are all senior to their original show counterparts.
Spock was supposed to get through his human insecurity while Kirk was supposed to smooth out his brashness, but the movies just hit a big speed bump.
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:44 pm
These movies were supposed to be prequels to the five year mission, and now 10 years since the first movie came out, the actors are all senior to their original show counterparts.
Spock was supposed to get through his human insecurity while Kirk was supposed to smooth out his brashness, but the movies just hit a big speed bump.
The irony being that Beyond really did get received very well because Pine comfortably looks and acts like a starship captain--right around when the series had run its course.
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:44 pm
These movies were supposed to be prequels to the five year mission, and now 10 years since the first movie came out, the actors are all senior to their original show counterparts.
Spock was supposed to get through his human insecurity while Kirk was supposed to smooth out his brashness, but the movies just hit a big speed bump.
The irony being that Beyond really did get received very well because Pine comfortably looks and acts like a starship captain--right around when the series had run its course.
It's like one of the things the Kelvin timeline inexplicably changed was the need to do a five year mission at all.
Now that you mention it Kirk isn't very brash in Beyond as far as when I saw it in theater. He's still kinda chased by his adrenaline though. I can't remember if Spock is still chased by his human hormones.
Admiral X wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:04 pm
Unfortunately in doing so, they destroyed Spock's character. One of the biggest failings of Abrams Trek is that the people making it didn't seem to understand that they were ruining one of the things that made Spock the icon that he is by making him practically human.
I'm not sure I agree as this is the one occasion I could see Spock unleash himself. After all, a bit like Spiderman, Spock unleashed would kill most sapients. Ergo he wouldn't and just would use the neck pinch.
It isn't the case with Khan.
Way I see it in reboot movies Spock is still struggling to have his emotions in check when in TOS he already had done that.
"In the embrace of the great Nurgle, I am no longer afraid, for with His pestilential favour I have become that which I once most feared: Death.."
- Kulvain Hestarius of the Death Guard
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:52 am
It is sadly how our society treats this stuff. As "action" and not the science part of "science-fiction." Hell, Orci even said as much.
When was Trek really about the science?
Pretty much. As a show it focuses more on social introspection. Part of the appeal of TOS my mom said was that it wasn't about the gadgets being focused on but the characters. They used the scientific stuff only as much as they need to. Technobabble of course though is an aspect of over relying on scientific stuff.
Yup. There's a reason people cosplay as characters and not as tricorders or Prime Directives. As Ron Moore once put it "it's the characters, duh!"
TNG's indulgence in technobabble and stately dialogue always felt pretentious to me, in that it wanted to give that impression that it was hard science when it was really just bullshit "tech the tech". So it was refreshing when DS9 (and even ENT) opted to try to steer clear of that nonsense and present the characters speaking in a way that's relatable. I would only accept Data as someone who'd speak so formally, as he's an android. Where a human would have told that beggar in "Time's Arrow" episode "I have no money" Data would of course phrase it like "I am sorry, but I have no form of legal tender".
Admiral X wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:04 pm
Unfortunately in doing so, they destroyed Spock's character. One of the biggest failings of Abrams Trek is that the people making it didn't seem to understand that they were ruining one of the things that made Spock the icon that he is by making him practically human.
I'm not sure I agree as this is the one occasion I could see Spock unleash himself. After all, a bit like Spiderman, Spock unleashed would kill most sapients. Ergo he wouldn't and just would use the neck pinch.
It isn't the case with Khan.
Way I see it in reboot movies Spock is still struggling to have his emotions in check when in TOS he already had done that.
I'd say Prime Spock has them in check by the movies, but is clearly still struggling in TOS but not to the same extent as Kelvin Spock. Prime Spock's is more under the surface, whereas Kelvin's is plain in his face. It's part of why his death in WRATH OF KHAN is so effective because by that point he had grown into someone who was no longer in denial of his human half like he was in TOS. In TOS he's trying to present himself being more Vulcan than Vulcan, kind of like Worf trying to be more Klingon than Klingon. Then his experience with V'Ger opens him up to seeing the value of his human half and is no longer feeling ashamed of expressing his friendship with Kirk. Of course, he sort of has to relearn that a bit in TVH but that seemed to be more for setting up comedic moments, but it still lead to him expressing "I feel fine".
I think it's too bad we may never see Kelvin Spock achieve that level of serenity that his counterpart found.
Makeshift Python wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:43 pmTNG's indulgence in technobabble and stately dialogue always felt pretentious to me, in that it wanted to give that impression that it was hard science when it was really just bullshit "tech the tech". So it was refreshing when DS9 (and even ENT) opted to try to steer clear of that nonsense and present the characters speaking in a way that's relatable. I would only accept Data as someone who'd speak so formally, as he's an android. Where a human would have told that beggar in "Time's Arrow" episode "I have no money" Data would of course phrase it like "I am sorry, but I have no form of legal tender".
Also, he doesn't use contractions. Because it's impossible for Soongian androids to use contractions.
Admiral X wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:04 pm
Unfortunately in doing so, they destroyed Spock's character. One of the biggest failings of Abrams Trek is that the people making it didn't seem to understand that they were ruining one of the things that made Spock the icon that he is by making him practically human.
TBH, both Spock and Kirk are hit by this. They are completely re-written as characters in JJ's Trek, and not for the better. They are less-nuanced caricatures.
Deledrius wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:44 am
TBH, both Spock and Kirk are hit by this. They are completely re-written as characters in JJ's Trek, and not for the better. They are less-nuanced caricatures.
Just to be clear: you want them to be identical despite literally being a different universe where their lives are horrifically changed for the worse?
