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Admiral X wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:55 am
All this tells me is that you don't understand more conservatively minded people very well.
Trump has already successfully, and with stated intent to accelerate, removed rights from citizens based on identity, and if anything only improved his standing among supporters.
2019 conservatives fail to understand the severity of their own positions.
Mind enumerating these things? Other than not allowing new transsexuals in the military, I'm not aware of any such.
In my experience, it's been conservatives who have stood for freedom of speech and conservatives seem to be the overwhelmingly more likely to call each other out on political violence or racial discrimination.
"Conservatives" seems such a vague word, unless you mean moderate righters. I'm a moderate lefter and I want freedom of speech. I've even defended stuff those on the hard left would call hate speech, because isn't it somebody's right to be an asshole? So long as they aren't breaking the law or are engaged in violence.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:20 pm
Mind enumerating these things? Other than not allowing new transsexuals in the military, I'm not aware of any such.
"Other than". Correct. That is my argument. Conservatives care so little about their fellow human beings that, when it's a group they don't like, discriminating against them is laudable behavior.
And in my experience conservatives have such an elementary understanding of bigotry and discrimination that they will never call one another out on it, because anything short of literal lynching fails to measure up to their definition of bigotry.
That's what my prediction is based on. Where Trump to cancel the election, or refuse to step down upon losing an election, conservatives would approve the motion, because it would be a necessary bulwark against "socialism".
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:20 pm
Mind enumerating these things? Other than not allowing new transsexuals in the military, I'm not aware of any such.
"Other than". Correct. That is my argument. Conservatives care so little about their fellow human beings that, when it's a group they don't like, discriminating against them is laudable behavior.
And in my experience conservatives have such an elementary understanding of bigotry and discrimination that they will never call one another out on it, because anything short of literal lynching fails to measure up to their definition of bigotry.
That's what my prediction is based on. Where Trump to cancel the election, or refuse to step down upon losing an election, conservatives would approve the motion, because it would be a necessary bulwark against "socialism".
"Stated intent to accelerate?" I must have missed that part.
And your experience of conservatives doesn't match mine, and I think I've spent more time talking to them with honesty and an open mind. Discounting someone's opinion because of skin color and sex seems to be a trail of the political left, but perhaps, to you, that doesn't count as bigotry or discrimination.
And perhaps political violence is accepted under "diversity of tactics" for you as well, as long as it is a necessary bulwark against "nazis" and "white supremacy?"
But I know not to expect honesty from you. I was just wondering if I might be pleasantly surprised this time.
You are resorting to a strawman, CmdrKing. No, only the hard-liners would feel that. The moderate, middle-of-the-road Republican, Independent, and centrist voters would feel deeply uneasy, but they'd rationalize it, and not get involved.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
CmdrKing wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:29 pmThat's what my prediction is based on. Where Trump to cancel the election, or refuse to step down upon losing an election, conservatives would approve the motion, because it would be a necessary bulwark against "socialism".
Given the views you seem to hold about the intentions of those in power, I'm amazed that you aren't an enthusiastic member of the "left-leaning gun nuts club."
When they come for you, you want to make sure you can go down swinging.
Yes! We can absolutely change the Constitution....if we have cultural consensus on what should be done. We've done it many times in the past.
But we're not there on the issue of guns yet, which means it stays a right for now. And as long as it's a right, there's only so much we can do in the way of control. We probably could get another compromise like what happened in the 80s....but it would have to be a compromise...meaning both sides would have to give some ground.
CmdrKing wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:29 pmThat's what my prediction is based on. Where Trump to cancel the election, or refuse to step down upon losing an election, conservatives would approve the motion, because it would be a necessary bulwark against "socialism".
Given the views you seem to hold about the intentions of those in power, I'm amazed that you aren't an enthusiastic member of the "left-leaning gun nuts club."
When they come for you, you want to make sure you can go down swinging.
Only leftie gun advocators I'm familiar with is more closer to the anti establishment crowd that took form of Bernie supporters in '16. Not all Bernie supporters mind you, just the fervent anti-Hillary crowd I would say.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:26 pm
You are resorting to a strawman, CmdrKing. No, only the hard-liners would feel that. The moderate, middle-of-the-road Republican, Independent, and centrist voters would feel deeply uneasy, but they'd rationalize it, and not get involved.
*shrug* Distinction without a difference.
You also vastly underestimate the size of the "hard-line" conservative, and show a complete misunderstanding of what "independent" voters believe. In fact this just went up today and breaks down the matter nicely: non-affiliated voters in general are broadly in line with Democrats https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-moderate-middle-is-a-myth/
LittleRaven wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:41 pm
Given the views you seem to hold about the intentions of those in power, I'm amazed that you aren't an enthusiastic member of the "left-leaning gun nuts club."
When they come for you, you want to make sure you can go down swinging.
What's the point of one girl with a gun maybe shooting up a couple cops? Doesn't make me any more alive or contribute any meaningful reduction of bigotry and legal discrimination for people I care about.
Also a shooting Revolution almost certainly ends in scorched earth.
So no. The goal is to nudge people into thinking more critically, thwart the spread of propaganda, and get bad actors to talk themselves into a hole.
