Are modern Feminists anti-sex?

[Yukaphile]

No, really, as I am more and more coming to reevaluate a lot of things in my life, that also must include my Feminist upbringing, by a second waver. Given everything I've been seeing lately, I have to wonder if despite the distinction made by self-touted Feminists of being "sex-negative" or "sex-positive," that in the end, most of them of my generation are just anti-sex. Why do I bring this up? Look how they shot down Wonder Woman being made ambassador to the UN because of how she is dressed. Cortana from Halo is blatantly naked, despite flimsy out-of-universe explanations, lol, and I've seen recent pictures where she has clothes. It makes me wonder if Feminists, even those who claim to be sex-positive, are just trying to remove the sex appeal from society. Yes, it targets women disproportionately with bullshit excuses like how the "female body is more aesthetically pleasing," which I find dubious, but you know how to fix that? Create fanservice of the males too! Or is it that the Feminists think that fanservice tailored to women would trigger men outside our "comfort zones?"

I mean, removing the sex appeal from Halo and DC will sure as shit not stop sexual predators. And I can sympathize to some of their arguments, like how our patriarchal language filters into our perceptions, and how rape culture is hard to fight when it's your own relatives or seemingly well-respected and beloved members of the community who are guilty, because then people make excuses, rationalize, or just try and filter it through some other agenda to misrepresent it in order to protect themselves, insisting they weren't "completely in control of themselves" at the time, or he just "made a mistake" or "was a victim too." I really am, and I'm very hard-line on sexual predators. I don't care what "excuses" others offer, and I frankly think it's hard to suss out their motives, whether they are legitimate sadists who have a pathological need to hurt others, or just chose to do so all on their own. But again, I think this is the wrong approach. I think when you are listening to the news and seeing constant reports on those in the elite power structure sexually abusing others, or those on the ground level who organize sex cartels or other disgusting stuff, or pedophiles, it creates the illusion, like online, that sexual assault is more widespread than it really is, especially given the way we are always in a tribal jungle mindset, seeing the world as a dangerous place. Actual statistics insist the hard, mathematical numbers are like 200,000 rapes per year, maybe more depending on how you wanna factor in the unknown variable of how many don't go reported, and actual sexual harassment might be higher. What, low millions? That's atrocious, but it is still small potatoes compared to 300,000,000 people.

The point I am trying to make here is that I think they're pushing an "anti-rape" agenda they don't have to under the guise of being "sex-positive," trying to make their ideal versions of what sex is the norm. I'm very sex-positive, agree with a few Feminist positions as I talked about above, and yet I'm also pro-porn (though if there is abuse of power behind the scenes, naturally I will be opposed to that), I'm pro-casual sex, I'm pro-prostitution, I'm pro... anything that's sexually liberating and consensual. Or non-consensual in your fantasies. I dunno. Given how the Internet has come to supplement the way the news makes this all seem worse, so that we got two sources of negativity, I'm wondering if these actual Feminists, male or female, are subscribing to a false myth that never was, because any reasonable, conscience-minded person won't coerce another into sex. Challenging the members of our communities guilty of this is a good goal, as is changing the language, to a degree. But more often than not lately they are striking me as being "sex-negative" and calling that "sex-positive." Who knows, maybe they were abused, in which case, I feel sorry for them. But this is a matter of social issues, and I think I'm finally advancing in the next phase along my march toward dead center. Still dislike gender roles, since I think those are cultural and not genetic, which means it's another label you put on people that limits them and holds them back, but I dunno. What do you guys think after this rambling stream of consciousness post?

[Mecha82]

I do think that whole idea that modern feminists are some how anti-sex is something that leads up to way certain people see feminists and have spread that idea in social media. It's that demonization of opposition that is so common on internet. To make other side look far worse in order to manipulate opinions. It's part of what Chuck talked about in his companion video for Terra Firma.

[Yukaphile]

Oh absolutely. And identity, like "I identify this way," is still such a complex and broad thing. I'm not claiming all Feminists are anti-sex, mind you, since I have not met them all even among those of my generation. I'm talking strictly political activists online or offline.

[clearspira]

I keep hearing people say ''oh, that's just a stereotype'' or ''you can't judge everyone by the actions of a few'' and yet it keeps on happening. Its like what Chuck pointed out about the criticism regarding his ''French are cowards'' jokes involving Picard: ''its not a stereotype if they keep on fucking doing it.''

EVERY SINGLE TIME I see someone trying to block a strip club, people moaning about a videogame character wearing a bikini, people moaning about the amount of tits in Game of Thrones, people moaning about the rape scene in Game of Thrones, people moaning about posters that feature women in bikinis, people moaning about porn, people moaning about an old painting, people moaning about an old film etc. it is ALWAYS from someone who claims to be a feminist.

Not all feminists are anti-sex, but everyone who is anti-sex is a feminist.

Sorry, mate. But I will never see modern feminism as anything more than something that has been corrupted by a cabal of puritans and that is just the way it is.

[Yukaphile]

Probably fair. Though my friend tells me this dates back to second wave, and yeah, they also strike me as some of the coldest fishes I have ever met, but that is probably because given the era, they were badly abused by men. It's not pretty. I do think trying to remove the sex appeal from society is a mistake. If it hits women the hardest, challenge that bullshit that the female form is more "aesthetically pleasing." I feel that way, in my heart, and I still call bullshit. For equality, give some fanservice to the girls.

And I dunno, I'd argue the hard religious right are also as anti-sex as you can get, thinking it should be at a proper time and place and laid out to biblical guidelines, lol. They are a minority, sure, but it's the same puritanical mindset.

[Mecha82]

Claiming that anyone who is anti-sex is feminist is false claim and shows bias. Religious right is most anti-sex there is but of course right wing people ignore that in order to keep shouting they bias. It was christians that forced that anti-sex stance to everyone and every were they religion took over from local religion.

Oh and that "French are cowards"-joke is also false and anyone who knows history knows that. They fought English for centuries including during war that lasted century, they had powerful empire during colonial era, they held line during WWI in places like Verdun and only reason why they surrendered during WWII was because they had no other choice and if not for that France would had been totally destroyed by Nazi Germany.

[Yukaphile]

Removing the sex appeal from these beloved franchises will NOT stop sexual predators and doesn't change perception past making people angry who idealize women, who are not even sexist pigs, who just love the beauty of the female form. And it shows off an extremely narrow-minded female-centric view. Isn't this about equality? And human desire is inevitable, so why not show off fanservice for the girls too? For my money, it is how misandry and misogyny go hand-in-hand. You can have Cortana being naked because she's a sexy AI. You cannot have another male AI going naked because... it seems creepy. How is that NOT a double standard? That double standard is all over the place in something like Elfen Lied. The test subjects, all underage girls, are kept naked and chained up. The one boy we see? Gets to keep his clothes on, because of course he does.

[Darth Wedgius]

I wouldn't say "anti-sex" is an entirely accurate label. I doubt many feminists are anti-lesbian-sex. Unless it involves white people, because of political overlap, but I hope that's fairly rare. There are feminists who are against sex with men, because of course there are.

But I think most "anti-sex" feminists are more anti-sexy than anti-sex. They don't want women sexualized (I won't say "objectified" because it's a little stupid) for the entertainment of men. They may have more practical concerns, e.g., that women may suffer more anxiety over their appearance due to the emphasis on attractiveness (which I think happens, though I don't know to what degree) or that by treating women as sex objects it may encourage sexual assault (I did a quick search for solid evidence for this and didn't find any, outside of some short-term effects of viewing violent porn).

Of course men are also presented as attractive or not, and may similarly fall victim to anxiety about our appearance (maybe to a greater extent than women [url]https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/jan/06/body-image-concerns-men-more-than-women[/url]) but, to be fair, men being sexualized too doesn't make it less important when it happens to women. Because men on average are much stronger than women, sexualization of men encouraging sexual assault is probably less of a concern.

I'm not trying to legitimize this area of feminism; I think there are valid concerns but I think they're way over-stated.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Modern Feminism is specifically sex neutral as per how it's been developed.

[Yukaphile]

Well, society pressuring women to focus too much on their looks where it could lead to suicide is something I do disapprove of. But human beings are like the water droplets in a tidal wave. You only know the general shape of the wave. You can't chart its exact dimensions. And fuck, look at me! I fret about my appearance all the time and it gets in the way of getting to know people.