Holier-than-thou virtue-signaling on the left?

[Admiral X]

I think the "state" will dissolve in the future, past the paranoid "they're watching us" mentality you have.

This isn't my mentality, this is the state of things as revealed to us by whistle-blowers, Snowden being a very prominent example of this. Wouldn't be surprised if some bot adds me to some watch list now since I used his name along with "whistle-blowers."

[Yukaphile]

You mean Edward Snowden? That traitor who fled to imperialist Russia? Yeah, right. Even so, intelligence-gathering operations are NORMAL when you got hostile enemies like Russia. You know - place Snowden fled to where he is no doubt telling Putin everything he knows about us. We've heard on the cable news, and I'm inclined to believe it, that Putin sends his goons to follow people, even into fucking church, to put the squeeze on them, like a damned mob boss. I really think Snowden was one of the contributing factors to how Russia so successfully hacked us in 2016. And before you insist there's no proof of collusion, that is true. I'll give you that. But my mom called my local state election board, since she is voting next year (not that I care, lol), and was worried they'd do it again. They confirmed they did so in 2016, but failed to get anywhere here. Though I'm sure you'll just spin-doctor that it into, "Of course they'll tell you that!" There is being wary of those who have power, which is natural and should be encouraged among more people, and simply just thinking everyone with power is out to get you. Like the bogeyman.

[Admiral X]

Even so, intelligence-gathering operations are NORMAL when you got hostile enemies like Russia.

Except that they're spying on Americans.

[Yukaphile]

Is that so bad? There's worse things you can do. Like disappear people or charge them based on that information. Do you have any evidence they do so? Constructing a useful databank of information from Americans is useful. So long as you are not charged erroneously.

[ProfessorDetective]

Is that so bad? There's worse things you can do. Like disappear people or charge them based on that information. Do you have any evidence they do so? Constructing a useful databank of information from Americans is useful. So long as you are not charged erroneously.

And, let's be honest, most of the info-gather ops. happening in the USA are just trying to figure out which ad for shoes is the most likely to convince you to buy some shoes.

Replace 'shoes' with other items/services where applicable.

[Admiral X]

Is that so bad? There's worse things you can do. Like disappear people or charge them based on that information.

Spying on them can sure lead to that. Same reason why I oppose any attempt at firearm registration.

Do you have any evidence they do so?

Just everything that was leaked about it by Snowden and the others that came before him.

Constructing a useful databank of information from Americans is useful. So long as you are not charged erroneously.

At the very least it's creepy as fuck. And I can't get over how cool with it you are.

[Riedquat]

Is that so bad? There's worse things you can do. Like disappear people or charge them based on that information. Do you have any evidence they do so? Constructing a useful databank of information from Americans is useful. So long as you are not charged erroneously.

Spying on people, gaterhing any information with a complete lack of respect for privacy is bad, and there's far, far too much of it (not to mention all the other monitoring that goes on). Sure, there are much worse things you can do to people but that doesn't excuse it. And it's bad for it's own sake IMO, not just because it could potentially lead to bad things. I don't want what I'm doing known all the time because someone might misuse it, I don't want it known simply because I find the idea of that level of lack of privacy pretty unpleasant in its own right.

[Mecha82]

Is that so bad? There's worse things you can do. Like disappear people or charge them based on that information. Do you have any evidence they do so? Constructing a useful databank of information from Americans is useful. So long as you are not charged erroneously.

And, let's be honest, most of the info-gather ops. happening in the USA are just trying to figure out which ad for shoes is the most likely to convince you to buy some shoes.

Replace 'shoes' with other items/services where applicable.

That's most likely when it comes to USA were corporations are more important than people. Of course then there are countries like China (PRC) were information gathering is all so that they can keep tabs on people with corporations working with them like happened when Activision Blizzard punished Heartstone player for voicing his support to HK protests in fear that they would lose money.

Then again CCP also sends people to re-education camps and prisons as well as forcefully harvests organs from those people so we are talking about regime like that.

[Yukaphile]

I am willing we need to accept sacrifices for the greater good. The problem here is the potential to abuse, which I could sympathize to, and understand how some are worried it will lead to the worst excesses, you know, disappearing people or charging them gained on dubious means. Even so, I figure the threats out there, jihadist terrorists and a newly resurgent and imperialist Russia, plus North Korea, justifies it. In a perfect world where humans were all united, this would not be necessary or would be greatly reduced, but the state still exists, sadly. So, we gotta do what we gotta do.

[Admiral X]

I am willing we need to accept sacrifices for the greater good.

*insert clip from Hot Fuzz.

The problem here is the potential to abuse, which I could sympathize to, and understand how some are worried it will lead to the worst excesses, you know, disappearing people or charging them gained on dubious means. Even so, I figure the threats out there, jihadist terrorists and a newly resurgent and imperialist Russia, plus North Korea, justifies it. In a perfect world where humans were all united, this would not be necessary or would be greatly reduced, but the state still exists, sadly. So, we gotta do what we gotta do.

Fighting terrorism was the excuse given for passing the Patriot Act, but it's mostly been used to go after Americans. Terrorism has just become the latest excuse to get people to accept more and more infringements on their rights.