VOY - Alice

[clearspira]

The one problem with alien crew staffing is; who'd want to join a strange ship full of total strangers on a one-way trip to some faraway planet no one's ever heard of, never to see their loved ones again?

And as I write that, the answer is clear; Refugees. Maybe some with shady motives, or a checkered past that they're trying to escape from... we could've ended up with a Garak-type character if they'd done this.

Dammit, now I'm pissed off.

I wish there had been a flotilla of ships that Voyager was the leader of.
Picture the outside of the Caretaker's array, there are ships from all over the galaxy, for exploration, resource extraction, war, and colonization. Thousands of people all taken from their homes, all of them pointing fingers and guns at one another, and freaking out... Then the Federation shows up.

The Captain of Voyager (not Janeway) has to whip together a makeshift alliance to combat the Caretaker. Who else is there? A klingon ship that is all about blowing it up, Romulans who have already put together their own micro-fleet, cardassians, ferengi, and a dominion ship with a Jeffry Combs. All the fun stuff you like from the Alpha Quadrant in fun size single servings.

Literally anything! Introduce a dozen aliens you plan to have show up over the course of the series!

Have them fight the caretaker, the array is destroyed, killing the Captain, and Janeway has to take over and pulls in Maquis ex-starfleet crew members from other badly damaged/short range ship to fill out her ranks. Now you have an upset paradigm, numerous resources, and a mission, "Put aside the bullshit, and get home".

Then as they cruise thru the galaxy ships are lost, crews have to integrate, the pick up new ships and materials, they are a freebooting navy with Voyager as a Federation representative... but not one that can veto everyone else, if the other species want to violate the prime detective then they can and it causes friction!

No resetting things, just limit the big paradigm shifts to two hour season finals and mid season TV movies.

There an episode where we meet the people who made the Kazon a power and we were presented with that possibility... and it doesn't happen. I believe Chuck (and the Agony Booth) noted that was probably the moment that Berman-era Trek died. There were films, there was Enterprise, but they were all the same Next Generation patented turd with a different paint job.

Seriously, a reboot of this show would be awesome. I guess Battlestar Galactica is kind of the spiritual successor given Ron Moore, but seasons 3 and 4 were a travesty whereas Voyager objectively began to hit its stride in seasons 3 and 4. Ironic.

[Simplicius]

There an episode where we meet the people who made the Kazon a power and we were presented with that possibility... and it doesn't happen. I believe Chuck (and the Agony Booth) noted that was probably the moment that Berman-era Trek died. There were films, there was Enterprise, but they were all the same Next Generation patented turd with a different paint job.

For those wondering, the episode (and review) is called "Alliances" and I definitely agree.

[MerelyAFan]

The reset button's use in that episode is amusing in hindsight given the ratings and critical success of Scorpion, which not only featured Voyager forging an alliance with a much more contrasting entity in the Borg (against an even more alien enemy in species 8472) but also did permanently change the status quo via the appearance of Seven of Nine. Its a two parter antithesis to Alliances in many ways, and it makes the latter's narrative failure (as well as the frequent use of the reset button again after Scorpion) all the more disappointing.

[Durandal_1707]

There an episode where we meet the people who made the Kazon a power and we were presented with that possibility... and it doesn't happen. I believe Chuck (and the Agony Booth) noted that was probably the moment that Berman-era Trek died. There were films, there was Enterprise, but they were all the same Next Generation patented turd with a different paint job.

For those wondering, the episode (and review) is called "Alliances" and I definitely agree.

No love for DS9's fifth season then?

[Admiral X]

Just think, all those critical parts he used on that little shuttle got blown up, and this never became a problem later on.

[Simplicius]

There an episode where we meet the people who made the Kazon a power and we were presented with that possibility... and it doesn't happen. I believe Chuck (and the Agony Booth) noted that was probably the moment that Berman-era Trek died. There were films, there was Enterprise, but they were all the same Next Generation patented turd with a different paint job.

For those wondering, the episode (and review) is called "Alliances" and I definitely agree.

No love for DS9's fifth season then?

Deep Space Nine was a masterpiece (seasons one and seven notwithstanding) but I don't see what it could possibly have done to make up for Voyager's decision to wallow in mediocrity.

[Kendrakirai]

The one problem with alien crew staffing is; who'd want to join a strange ship full of total strangers on a one-way trip to some faraway planet no one's ever heard of, never to see their loved ones again?

And as I write that, the answer is clear; Refugees. Maybe some with shady motives, or a checkered past that they're trying to escape from... we could've ended up with a Garak-type character if they'd done this.

Dammit, now I'm pissed off.

I wish there had been a flotilla of ships that Voyager was the leader of.
Picture the outside of the Caretaker's array, there are ships from all over the galaxy, for exploration, resource extraction, war, and colonization. Thousands of people all taken from their homes, all of them pointing fingers and guns at one another, and freaking out... Then the Federation shows up.

The Captain of Voyager (not Janeway) has to whip together a makeshift alliance to combat the Caretaker. Who else is there? A klingon ship that is all about blowing it up, Romulans who have already put together their own micro-fleet, cardassians, ferengi, and a dominion ship with a Jeffry Combs. All the fun stuff you like from the Alpha Quadrant in fun size single servings.

Literally anything! Introduce a dozen aliens you plan to have show up over the course of the series!

Have them fight the caretaker, the array is destroyed, killing the Captain, and Janeway has to take over and pulls in Maquis ex-starfleet crew members from other badly damaged/short range ship to fill out her ranks. Now you have an upset paradigm, numerous resources, and a mission, "Put aside the bullshit, and get home".

Then as they cruise thru the galaxy ships are lost, crews have to integrate, the pick up new ships and materials, they are a freebooting navy with Voyager as a Federation representative... but not one that can veto everyone else, if the other species want to violate the prime detective then they can and it causes friction!

No resetting things, just limit the big paradigm shifts to two hour season finals and mid season TV movies.

There an episode where we meet the people who made the Kazon a power and we were presented with that possibility... and it doesn't happen. I believe Chuck (and the Agony Booth) noted that was probably the moment that Berman-era Trek died. There were films, there was Enterprise, but they were all the same Next Generation patented turd with a different paint job.

Seriously, a reboot of this show would be awesome. I guess Battlestar Galactica is kind of the spiritual successor given Ron Moore, but seasons 3 and 4 were a travesty whereas Voyager objectively began to hit its stride in seasons 3 and 4. Ironic.

That would have pretty much just *been* Battlestar Galactica, and required about five times the budget Voyager had. You know, the show that couldn’t even afford a *matte painting* in The 37s? How do you imagine a flotilla of ships, the aliens, the battles, would look on the budget Voyager had?

[CrypticMirror]

This is another episode that has elements I would have liked to be a reoccurring thing in the series.
The drive to get materials and resources that they can fix up or make do with, wheeling and dealing with aliens who have alternative motives, and a bad guy who has a reflective element to the heroes (get home).
If the series had stronger continuity (the need to replace lost materials, shuttle craft, etc) then this episode would have been one of many like it and ironically... would have been even more forgettable in the sense that it didn't stand apart.

I agree, and not just having to trade and replace materials but crew too. Honestly, every dock that Voyager pulled into they ought to have been posting "crew wanted" posters and having a regular turn over of people signing on; sometimes just for a few short trips and sometimes for longer. Crew staffing, and I'm not just talking about the Maquis non-issue, ought always have been a source of tension in Voyager. They did sorta lean into it a bit towards the end with Icheb and Seven, but only slightly. I guess the early meeting with Neelix put them off in case they got another him. Damn Neelix. Chuck was right, Voyager was where potential went to die; they had so much of it but were so timorous about developing it.

The one problem with alien crew staffing is; who'd want to join a strange ship full of total strangers on a one-way trip to some faraway planet no one's ever heard of, never to see their loved ones again?

And as I write that, the answer is clear; Refugees. Maybe some with shady motives, or a checkered past that they're trying to escape from... we could've ended up with a Garak-type character if they'd done this.

Dammit, now I'm pissed off.

It wouldn't even have to be that. Voyager pastes a crew wanted notice, and some people who are wannabe explorers on their own, or who say they'll sign on for a few months as they pass through the local group of stars because they are working their passage through an area they know but Voy does not and are only going so far. There were so many possibilities. Sigh.

[Fianna]

That would have pretty much just *been* Battlestar Galactica, and required about five times the budget Voyager had. You know, the show that couldn’t even afford a *matte painting* in The 37s? How do you imagine a flotilla of ships, the aliens, the battles, would look on the budget Voyager had?

Is it that they couldn't afford a matte painting, or was the thinking, "This is the 90's; no one uses matte paintings anymore. It's either CG or nothing."?

[Artabax]

The one problem with alien crew staffing is; who'd want to join a strange ship full of total strangers on a one-way trip to some faraway planet no one's ever heard of, never to see their loved ones again?

And as I write that, the answer is clear; Refugees. Maybe some with shady motives, or a checkered past that they're trying to escape from... we could've ended up with a Garak-type character if they'd done this.

Dammit, now I'm pissed off.

I wish there had been a flotilla of ships that Voyager was the leader of.
Picture the outside of the Caretaker's array, there are ships from all over the galaxy, for exploration, resource extraction, war, and colonization. Thousands of people all taken from their homes, all of them pointing fingers and guns at one another, and freaking out... Then the Federation shows up.

The Captain of Voyager (not Janeway) has to whip together a makeshift alliance to combat the Caretaker. Who else is there? A klingon ship that is all about blowing it up, Romulans who have already put together their own micro-fleet, cardassians, ferengi, and a dominion ship with a Jeffry Combs. All the fun stuff you like from the Alpha Quadrant in fun size single servings.

Literally anything! Introduce a dozen aliens you plan to have show up over the course of the series!

Have them fight the caretaker, the array is destroyed, killing the Captain, and Janeway has to take over and pulls in Maquis ex-starfleet crew members from other badly damaged/short range ship to fill out her ranks. Now you have an upset paradigm, numerous resources, and a mission, "Put aside the bullshit, and get home".

Then as they cruise thru the galaxy ships are lost, crews have to integrate, the pick up new ships and materials, they are a freebooting navy with Voyager as a Federation representative... but not one that can veto everyone else, if the other species want to violate the prime detective then they can and it causes friction!

No resetting things, just limit the big paradigm shifts to two hour season finals and mid season TV movies.

There an episode where we meet the people who made the Kazon a power and we were presented with that possibility... and it doesn't happen. I believe Chuck (and the Agony Booth) noted that was probably the moment that Berman-era Trek died. There were films, there was Enterprise, but they were all the same Next Generation patented turd with a different paint job.

Seriously, a reboot of this show would be awesome. I guess Battlestar Galactica is kind of the spiritual successor given Ron Moore, but seasons 3 and 4 were a travesty whereas Voyager objectively began to hit its stride in seasons 3 and 4. Ironic.

That would have pretty much just *been* Battlestar Galactica, and required about five times the budget Voyager had. You know, the show that couldn’t even afford a *matte painting* in The 37s? How do you imagine a flotilla of ships, the aliens, the battles, would look on the budget Voyager had?

They couldn't even afford a juggler for Neelix' pod0cast