So I've been thinking about checking out the Stargate franchise

[MissKittyFantastico]

Your wit is scintillating... or it was the first 10 times you made such jokes.

To be fair he's been pretty diligent on abstinence-only prevention.

[Yukaphile]

It's not a damned joke. That was the most extreme change, that thankfully they immediately walked back on, and good thing too. AND YOU KNOW WHAT?! YOUR HARPING ON MY HARPING ON IT IS HARDLY POSITIVE WHEN IT IGNORES MY POSITIVE CHANGES IN ISOLATING THAT ALL TO SEASON 1, AND BEING MORE WILLING TO GIVE ANYTHING PAST IT A FAIR SHAKE!

[Beastro]

Kinda like how early DISCO, STD Season 1, was basically just aping Game of Thrones, huh? I could really see Bryan Fuller eating that up, tbh...

GoT in what way?

Personally most of the trend most assigned to GoT now started years before, especially with New BSG and it's love of having overly faulted characters and everyone having a skeleton in the closet. GoT just added onto that the silly exaggerated double dealing and backstabbing.

[AquaReggie]

It's not a damned joke. That was the most extreme change, that thankfully they immediately walked back on, and good thing too. AND YOU KNOW WHAT?! YOUR HARPING ON MY HARPING ON IT IS HARDLY POSITIVE WHEN IT IGNORES MY POSITIVE CHANGES IN ISOLATING THAT ALL TO SEASON 1, AND BEING MORE WILLING TO GIVE ANYTHING PAST IT A FAIR SHAKE!

Actually... you're right. I was being too combative, and I apologize. That said, I genuinely don't find "I refuse to watch this but also will complain about it loudly based on second hand opinions" to be a fair shake. So no brownie points for that.

[Yukaphile]

The Klingons were more extreme, again. Like something you'd see in that world. Like primitive tribal warlords. That seemed to be their intent. Season 2 changed that, and never looked back. And praise glory to that and everything.

[AquaReggie]

Okay, I'll admit I probably just don't find the changes as important as you. Additionally, conceded that the Klingon makeup job looking more African probably falls under Unfortunate Implications. Any other aesthetic changes are basically neutral to me.

However, for everything else I'm generally in favor of putting blame where it belongs. This is supposed to be an era before Federation-Klingon rapprochement, so portraying them as the enemy is entirely consistent. As for the rest of their depiction...

1. Religious fanaticism. Not the Klingons' hat per se, but "The Sword of Kahless" implies that whoever possesses the sword would be seen as a divinely mandated leader of the Klingon Empire and could shape it according to their vision.
2. Disdain for cultural mixing. Almost every episode that involves both Worf and other Klingons plays on the idea that they consider him weak for adhering to Federation values. "Drumhead" even has the Klingon spy blurt out that peace with the Feds has made "the blood of Klingons become water".
3. Starting aggressive wars while also being liable to infighting. TOS, TNG, DS9...

[Yukaphile]

Ignoring the main reason I hate them, because it's a radical retcon that was not implied from the beginning nor broadens their character as a species, there is also the fact they try to make them conservative allegories at the same time they try and make them tribal African people. That seems like it's so horrendously offensive, that hell, a boy commenting on his black girlfriend's skin color, in praising her beauty, would be less offensive even if he used words others would object to. It's implying blacks vote for the GOP, isn't it? It's just insane. And their looks, were not changed even a little bit, but dialed up to eleven for no reason other than to be "artsy." Gene always wanted them to look the way they did in TMP, so you can ignore it and pretend it was that way in TOS. And I'm not even the most die-hard "Gene's vision" guy, but I still think he should have been allowed to have that, when possible. But why change them in DISCO Season 1 past the movie having done the same? Even Chuck commented on this with his STID review. The Romulans you could sort of handwave. They looked that way all through TOS to the TOS movies, so it's just a return to its roots that is nowhere near as extreme as the Klingons got in STID that became the basis for DISCO Season 1. It's why lots of people felt it was a reboot prequel rather than a legitimate "Prime Timeline" prequel. Even people who loved DISCO Season 1 had to admit this, I've seen it. Then they made it more like the Prime Timeline in Season 2, so, there you go. Just ignore Season 1. It belongs to another continuity. This all reminds me of how they hyped up "Unity" on Voyager, and then later had to apologize for it with "Scorpion." You can clearly feel the same attitude. "Let's give them the Prime Timeline they were asking for and reject all the baggage from Season 1!" It's why I don't consider it canon.

[AquaReggie]

Ignoring the main reason I hate them, because it's a radical retcon that was not implied from the beginning nor broadens their character as a species, there is also the fact they try to make them conservative allegories at the same time they try and make them tribal African people. That seems like it's so horrendously offensive, that hell, a boy commenting on his black girlfriend's skin color, in praising her beauty, would be less offensive even if he used words others would object to. It's implying blacks vote for the GOP, isn't it? It's just insane.

So, what, the only proper way to have a conservative allegory is to make them flannel-wearing Space Rednecks? That's not allegory, that's a Saturday Night Live sketch. And yeah, while not the majority there ARE black Americans who vote GOP (probably less than before thanks to Trump's alliance with overtly racist alt-right elements). I'm gonna leave that line in the middle alone for now.

[Yukaphile]

It has unfortunate implications. Majority of Republican voters these days are white, and that's not biased, it's just the facts. Perhaps because whites are a majority here, as well, I'm not talking about a political agenda. But it's implying that blacks are primitive in Africa, mumble "different Houses," and also put "primitive tribal African people" right alongside a GOP allegory for Trump, who most think is a Fascist tyrant (rather than a Fascist tyrant wannabe). Really. You don't see how bad that is?

[AquaReggie]

I agreed with you that making the Klingons who by TNG had settled into "brutal warrior race" look more black was bad. I also never contested that the Republican base is mostly white while the Democrats usually have black support. I just think fixating on Trump comparisons specifically and then making a logical leap to "Discovery is saying all black people are to blame for Trump" is fallacious. Look at Brazil, or hell even further back when Khomeini and supporters became ascendent in Iran - reactionary and extreme conservative movements don't start and end with Trump.