TOS - The Squire of Gothos

[Yukaphile]

Can Trelane even travel back to before the Big Bang? You're just flat-out trolling in a "self-parody" type way now.

[Kendrakirai]

Now here's one of those areas where I have to 'respectfully disagree with Chuck'. While you can have a story where nobody gets hurt but you still have a sense of danger, if your characters are never in any real danger, sooner or later the viewers, readers, players will realize that and the tension will all go away. TOS might have misused the new extra dying trope a bit too often, but even if they hadn't abused the heck out of it, you still would have needed a death here and there to make the point that things are indeed dangerous.

Nobody says that you *only* have threatening without death, just that you don’t *need* for there to be pointless death to make things threatening. It’s like the SCP wiki. There’s hundreds, thousands of things that kill you just because, and yet, many of the creepier and more memorable entries are just things that are *wrong*. There’s nothing inherently deadly about them. Just the implication that there is something impossibly alien and utterly unknowable and all it’s doing is...*existing* when everything says it *shouldn’t*. And the threat of *what if it notices*.

Killing people is threatening, sure, but it’s so often a *boring* threat.

[Yukaphile]

And of course, Kirk is the "master" of penetration!

And hey, who wants high stakes all the time? Who needs constant action or life and death? That's not sci-fi, that's the cynicism of something like Battlestar Galactica or Game of Thrones.

[Yukaphile]

Or modern Star Wars.

[Yukaphile]

Who was Trelane's actor? He thrived in the "imp" role. Hell, from the reactions of people here, I can see the truth of what Chuck said, this is a polarizing episode, but I agree with him. I think it's just good fun. And... I love the contrast here between TOS and Voyager. When TOS uses the word "ancient," it's a bit kitsch, but fun. When Voyager does it, it's just to be "future-y."

[AlucardNoir]

Now here's one of those areas where I have to 'respectfully disagree with Chuck'. While you can have a story where nobody gets hurt but you still have a sense of danger, if your characters are never in any real danger, sooner or later the viewers, readers, players will realize that and the tension will all go away. TOS might have misused the new extra dying trope a bit too often, but even if they hadn't abused the heck out of it, you still would have needed a death here and there to make the point that things are indeed dangerous.

Nobody says that you *only* have threatening without death, just that you don’t *need* for there to be pointless death to make things threatening. It’s like the SCP wiki. There’s hundreds, thousands of things that kill you just because, and yet, many of the creepier and more memorable entries are just things that are *wrong*. There’s nothing inherently deadly about them. Just the implication that there is something impossibly alien and utterly unknowable and all it’s doing is...*existing* when everything says it *shouldn’t*. And the threat of *what if it notices*.

Killing people is threatening, sure, but it’s so often a *boring* threat.

This is one of those "not all men" kind of situations where a statement can be interpreted to refer to varying degrees of generality. Lacking any qualifiers in the actual video, and given TOS' veritable abuse of the RedShirt trope actually named for it, it's hard for me not to feel that Chuck meant his statement as a criticism of the original show, but left his statement so ambiguous as to not offend TOS fans that is become a blanket attack on the very idea of building up tension thought the demise of a character.

[Durandal_1707]

Who was Trelane's actor? He thrived in the "imp" role. Hell, from the reactions of people here, I can see the truth of what Chuck said, this is a polarizing episode, but I agree with him. I think it's just good fun. And... I love the contrast here between TOS and Voyager. When TOS uses the word "ancient," it's a bit kitsch, but fun. When Voyager does it, it's just to be "future-y."

William Campbell. Same actor who played Captain Koloth.

[Yukaphile]

WOW.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

It was great fan service to see the three major TOS Klingons show up on DS9, including Campbell. Campbell also reprised his role as Trelane in the game Judgment Rites.

I always enjoyed this one. It's a lot of fun and Campbell chews up the scenery very well. To me, this is the sort of episode that works well on a rewatch too- gaining foreknowledge of what Trelane actually is adds some interesting shades to the character.

One drawback that isn't really the episode's fault is just how common this storyline ended up being. Charlie X showing up a few episodes sooner is one thing (I agree with Chuck that The Squire of Gothos), but the number of times many of the same elements had been re-used in Trek canon has probably diluted the episode's effectiveness for some.

One detail I like is the inclusion of other characters who feel like they have actual jobs on the ship other than Guard #1 and Guard #2. In season one it really isn't all that clear that Sulu or Uhura would become regulars while characters like DeSalle would fall by the wayside.

As far as Trelane being related to the Q, there's definite differences, not only with the disproportionate extent of their powers but with the reveal of Trelane's parents at the end. The floating blobs of light seem to be their "true form", and in all of Q's appearance we haven't seen anything similar. I do think the differences between the two could be explained away pretty easily (and were in Q-Squared), but unless that were done in canon I would think of them as two separate species.

[Yukaphile]

Yes, that it should stand up to repeated rewatches is a mandatory must not only for Star Trek, but sci-fi in general.

Do you forget that "form" Q had in Season 1, when they were deliberately aping TOS because Gene was a triggered bastard? I know we wanna pretend it didn't happen, but all I'm saying is, imagine if Trelane had come back then? I think the effect would be different.