Is Rey a Mary Sue?

[hammerofglass]

And who said he's evenly balanced between dark and light because that by no means comes across on screen.

Leia and Snoke both mention it. I absolutely agree it doesn't come across at all on screen.

[Simplicius]

You're not wrong if I meant the original definition... but words evolve.

When I use the word ''decimate'' I don't mean ''the act of killing one in every ten men due to insubordination.''
When I say ''gay'' I don't mean ''happy''.
When I say ''Mary Sue'' I don't mean ''the exact perimeters of a woman from an old Star Trek fanfic''.

It probably says a lot about me but I can cringe when I hear people abuse the word decimate.

A grossly overpowered character is now a Mary Sue trait. Not a enough on its own, but it is a trait. As you say, Superman is not a Sue just because he is overpowered, he becomes a Sue when that trait is added to the rest.

But what does ''grossly'' mean in this context? A good question. Superman has a reason to be overpowered - he is a Krptonian. Gandalf is a white wizard and for all intents and purposes an angel. Goku is a Saiyan. Hercules is a demi-god. Naruto is the son of the 4th Hokage and heir to the Nine Tailed Fox. Dr Who is a millennia old Time Lord. And even Anakin, the Chosen One of the Force fathered by Palpatine a Sith Master, has an excuse.

Rey is a puppet/avatar of the Force.

Snoke: "I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise. ... The Force will not allow dark without light; it will not allow light without dark."

Basically, Star Wars works like the Dark Crystal now. You don't have to like that idea (I sure don't) but that is the reason Rey is as over-powered as she is.

[Kendrakirai]

Only thing I’m gonna say is to basically repeat a thing I saw on tumblr in a less articulate way and probably forgetting points.

Rey understanding droids and knowing how to fix them; she’s a scavenger, of course she knows, she’s probably interacted with them hundreds of times.

Her piloting skill; look at friggin Anakin and Luke, Anakin’s first race he won, and after having never been in a star fighter cockpit before, he survives a battle and destroys a droid command ship. Luke, the same, with the Death Star.

Her Force powers; All she’s doing is exactly what Kylo did, and inexpertly at that.

Lightsaber; she wields it like she does the staff she’s been using for years, and she’s fighting a badly wounded Kylo Ren who’s literally beating himself to keep his adrenaline up, and she’s still barely holding her own.

If anything, Rey has *more* reason to be able to do all the crap she does in Force Awakens than Anakin or Luke do in *their* first movies.

[Darth Wedgius]

Term Mary Sue gets thrown around too loosely on internet by certain group of people which shows that they don't understand what it actually means. To them it's just another strawman to use in they argument how some how political agenda (one that they are against) has tainted movies.

So no, Rey isn't Mary Sue and claims that she is don't hold when considered with logic.

I'm sorry, but, if taken literally, that utterly fails logically. The first paragraph doesn't support your conclusion. It's like saying "fuel inefficient is thrown around too loosely, so the Chevy Tahoe is not fuel inefficient."

[Darth Wedgius]

I can forgive Mary Poppins -- if "forgive" is the right term, which it probably isn't -- because she doesn't really have much of a character journey. She's almost more of a story vehicle than a character; she gets other characters from set piece to set piece, and those characters develop.

Take this with a big 'ol grain of salt because I didn't see TLJ and I'm just going by what I know, but I wouldn't call Rey a sue. Poorly written, sure. A twisted idea of "female empowerment," maybe. But, for me (and this might only count for me), she doesn't have the effortless success that a Sue ought to have.

Wesley Crusher, when told that reversing the polarity of the tractor beam would "take weeks of laying out new circuits," asked a Starfleet engineer, "why not just see it in your head," and does it in minutes.

[Mecha82]

Lightsaber; she wields it like she does the staff she’s been using for years, and she’s fighting a badly wounded Kylo Ren who’s literally beating himself to keep his adrenaline up, and she’s still barely holding her own.

Then there was also fact that in that situation Kylo Ren wasn't even trying to kill her. He was holding back in that fight because he wanted to turn her to the dark side. Not kill her. So when Rey started to strike him with her anger over death of Han Solo it surprised Kylo. So no, I don't see issue either and you already had went trough main points.

[ChrisTheLovableJerk]

Yes. She destroyed THREE TIE Fighters in ONE shot. She lifted up dozens of boulders without breaking a sweat, while Yoda, grand master of the Jedi Order, looked winded after lifting up a pillar in Episode II. She's a bland, soulless husk of a character, and anyone who dares to point out how much she sucks is attacked with idiotic cries of 'Sexism!' and 'Misogyny!', as Disney and NuLucasfilm use women as shields to protect themselves from the criticism they deserve, because if Rey had been written like Ahsoka, Leia, Padme, Jyn, Hera, Sabine... I'd have no problem with her. But the way she is written is awful. She is a parasite, taking everything that doesn't belong to her. She takes the Falcon, she takes the Skywalker lightsaber, she copies Kylo's powers (with an explanation that gives the Voodoo Shark a run for its money), and if the rumors are true, she'll steal the Skywalker name.

Luke never fought a lightsaber duel in ANH, and when he did fight Vader he got his ass kicked, he just let the Force guide him. Anakin survived the battle of Naboo with R2's help and also allowed his natural Force instincts to survive the Pod Race. Rey, on the other hand, slaughters half a dozen trained guards in TLJ with little trouble, thanks to terrible choreography, obvious editing mistake, and shit writing.

[Admiral X]

You know who is a Mary Sue? Kylo Ren.

The character hated by everyone, including on his own side, and who constantly fails at everything he does?

[Admiral X]

So basically based on your logic only female character can be Mary Sue and no male character ever is one. What that tells about you and way you see fictional characters based on they gender and how much you put emphasis on that aspect.

Where do you get this idea from when everyone can very readily point to Wesley Crusher? The only difference is that generally the term Gary Stu is applied.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

It depends on how you define the words. Catchy phrases like Mary Sue are supposed to be useful shorthand. The word has become a murkily defined pejorative that sparks debate just by its usage. If shorthand is more confusing than helpful, then there's little reason to use it except to score rhetorical points because everyone agrees that Mary Sues are bad even if they can't agree what a Mary Sue actually is.

As for Rey herself- through two movies she has had no training (I wouldn't count Luke's bad advice), she instantly masters whatever skill she attempts, and she's had no real mistakes or failures to grow past. The last is the most serious and speaks to the overall shoddy nature of this trilogy's arc and planning.
The problem's not even necessarily that Rey is too powerful- it's that the story has been rigged in such a way that she has no worthwhile obstacles.

This isn't just a Rey problem either. She's mostly a symptom of the overall poor writing. They copy-pasted so much of the original trilogy but failed to actually put the characters through the hero's journey that was so central to that story's success.

I should add that I actually like Rey in many ways. Ridley was a good choice and she adds a lot of charisma and likeability to the role, imo. But the powers that be really failed to give her character agency in meaningful ways, and so her story so far has ended up being much less than it could have been.