DIS - Point of Light

[Fianna]

Though, in light of various planets independently evolving, not only humanoid life, but in some cases societies nearly identical to ones on Earth (Roman world, Yangs and Kohms world, etc.), saying that evolution is not random but instead proceeds along a predetermined path . . . I mean, it would explain some things.

[clearspira]

Y'know, I like the idea of a prey species becoming the apex. I think it would be very unlikely but its not impossible with the right circumstances. It is also something we have never seen before in Trek.

But all of this bullshit that came afterward that retconned the species makes them A) generic, because there is nothing original about a more advanced species pissing around with another one in Trek and B) ruins everything original about them.

My theory as to why they did it though was neatly described by CrypticMirror: they weren't just a prey species, they were an entire race cloned from Shaggy. I think it was yet another attempt to repair a broken concept among a field of broken concepts.

They Wasted A Perfectly Good Plot, and as ever, Iain M Banks did the concept of a prey species becoming top dog earlier and better in the Culture series.

[Deledrius]

..also with all due respect to him (which is very little), nobody had a poorer understanding of evolution of evolution than Brannon Braga! Nobody in Discovery has attributed a divine plan to evolution so far, at least, or had a creature evolve into a salamander.

Perhaps not as bad as Braga (because, really), but...

"Your planet is moving on to its next phase of evolution."
"They forgot that evolution is about SOUL!"
"You're the evolution."

-- Star Trek: Discovery

Also, every time Saru's metamorphosis is brought up it's called his "evolution". The writers are more familiar with Pokémon than a biology 101 textbook.

[Yukaphile]

WHAT?! SARU IS EVOLVING!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVIpkXSN_o0

But what does he evolve into?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Subaru

[Chaltab]

No no, Subaru is the final evolution. First Saru evolves into Sabu

[TGLS]

No, you forgot Subaru evolves into Toyota, if you give it a Moon Stone.

[Worffan101]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because literally the only redeeming feature of season 2 was Anson Mount.

That's a huge disservice to the rest of the cast. Has Doug Jones ever given a bad performance as Saru? Or any other character for that matter?

No offense to the actor, but the character is awful. And the whole concept behind his species, even with the Short Trek retcon, is Brannon Braga levels of understanding evolution. A race so chronically terrified of everything, and which evolved from livestock at that, would either have had a species wide coronary long before it achieved sapience, or would have lost that fear boner trait on its way.

It is a Neelix or Rom situation, the actor is good and does the best they can with the material, but the character is too annoying and too stupid to live.

This.

Doug Jones is a FABULOUS actor. He's wonderfully creepy as the death-gaze dude on Arrow, he's the generally acknowledged master of full-body makeup...and Saru is just a horrible character rooted in racialist stereotypes and dated themes.

Mary Wiseman is adorable and a fantastic actress. Her performance as Captain Killy on Star Trek Online is in my opinion the liveliest and best performance in the entire game, and keep in mind that even Andrew Robinson and Armin Shimmerman did voice work for that game (as Garak and Quark, no less). And Tilly is a caricature of an entire generation written by 50 year old men who think that they're being extremely clever by mocking "that way all those dumb millennials have nebulous brain issues" or whatever.

Jason Isaacs is a fantastic actor who always lends at least a little something interesting to his performances. Lorca is an incoherent villain who the writers always take in the dumbest and lamest possible direction.

Michelle Yeoh is a fabulous actress and easily conveys a sense of "Patrick Stewart but female" energy. Mirror Georgiou is still a one-note sociopath and not a particularly entertaining one at that.

Rekha Sharma is a veteran genre actress and seasoned performer who actually made me give a shit about the generic, bury-your-gays storyline that Star Trek Online stuck her with. So of course she gets killed off after like two episodes and her mirror doppelganger has like 5 minutes of screen time.

Tl;dr: The actors are fine. Their characters are fucking unwatchable.

[clearspira]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because literally the only redeeming feature of season 2 was Anson Mount.

That's a huge disservice to the rest of the cast. Has Doug Jones ever given a bad performance as Saru? Or any other character for that matter?

No offense to the actor, but the character is awful. And the whole concept behind his species, even with the Short Trek retcon, is Brannon Braga levels of understanding evolution. A race so chronically terrified of everything, and which evolved from livestock at that, would either have had a species wide coronary long before it achieved sapience, or would have lost that fear boner trait on its way.

It is a Neelix or Rom situation, the actor is good and does the best they can with the material, but the character is too annoying and too stupid to live.

This.

Doug Jones is a FABULOUS actor. He's wonderfully creepy as the death-gaze dude on Arrow, he's the generally acknowledged master of full-body makeup...and Saru is just a horrible character rooted in racialist stereotypes and dated themes.

Mary Wiseman is adorable and a fantastic actress. Her performance as Captain Killy on Star Trek Online is in my opinion the liveliest and best performance in the entire game, and keep in mind that even Andrew Robinson and Armin Shimmerman did voice work for that game (as Garak and Quark, no less). And Tilly is a caricature of an entire generation written by 50 year old men who think that they're being extremely clever by mocking "that way all those dumb millennials have nebulous brain issues" or whatever.

Jason Isaacs is a fantastic actor who always lends at least a little something interesting to his performances. Lorca is an incoherent villain who the writers always take in the dumbest and lamest possible direction.

Michelle Yeoh is a fabulous actress and easily conveys a sense of "Patrick Stewart but female" energy. Mirror Georgiou is still a one-note sociopath and not a particularly entertaining one at that.

Rekha Sharma is a veteran genre actress and seasoned performer who actually made me give a shit about the generic, bury-your-gays storyline that Star Trek Online stuck her with. So of course she gets killed off after like two episodes and her mirror doppelganger has like 5 minutes of screen time.

Tl;dr: The actors are fine. Their characters are fucking unwatchable.

''And Tilly is a caricature of an entire generation written by 50 year old men who think that they're being extremely clever by mocking "that way all those dumb millennials have nebulous brain issues" or whatever.''

Implying creative thought went into Girl Wesley is charitable. And frankly ''nebulous brain issues'' does describe Tilly well. She is Hollywood autistic, not actual autistic. A strange hodgepodge of various traits that have created a ditsy geek girl spank fantasy than any real person.

[TGLS]

Doug Jones is a FABULOUS actor. He's wonderfully creepy as the death-gaze dude on Arrow, he's the generally acknowledged master of full-body makeup...and Saru is just a horrible character rooted in racialist stereotypes and dated themes.

I understand most of your arguments (but disagree or don't care), but don't understand this one.

Rekha Sharma is a veteran genre actress and seasoned performer who actually made me give a shit about the generic, bury-your-gays storyline that Star Trek Online stuck her with. So of course she gets killed off after like two episodes and her mirror doppelganger has like 5 minutes of screen time.

This may be proving your argument, but who is this?