My Little Pony: Thanksgiving Show 2

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RobbyB1982
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Re: My Little Pony: Thanksgiving Show 2

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ProfessorDetective wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:30 am Okay, is it just me or do most of these specials focus on Rainbow? Not that I'm complaining, but...
Chuck goes with what donors ask for, so... the overall themes comes from the audience.
Sailor Nimue wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:00 am I was under the impression that Mare-Do-Well was widely considered one of the worst episodes of the show.
Yeah, it had a writer new the show that didn't really get the show's tone, and had just come off of Spongebob. Also, suddenly Ponyville has a bunch of cliffsides it never had before...

She did a handful more episodes after that in season 2, then one season 3 episode and one season 4 episode.

That's not a slight, even the more prolific writers on the show only did 10-20 episodes over 9 seasons, and almost no one from the first four seasons did scripts in the later seasons, so the show had some turn over.
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CmdrKing
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Re: My Little Pony: Thanksgiving Show 2

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Trinary wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:40 am
You're absolutely correct. It IS one of, if not THE, most widely hated episode in the entire series. I was at an MLP convention last year. At one point they went around the room and were asked to introduce ourselves and mention the first episode that we saw. One schlub responded that Mare-Do-Well was the first episode he ever saw. There was such an immediate, simultaneous reaction of everyone wincing and groaning, all two or three dozen of us. You'd have thought he said he was born on Hitler's birthday.
Heh. The first episode I ever saw was Feelin' Pinkie Keen, which is still my least favorite episode.
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Re: My Little Pony: Thanksgiving Show 2

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RobbyB1982 wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:02 am Yeah, it had a writer new the show that didn't really get the show's tone, and had just come off of Spongebob. Also, suddenly Ponyville has a bunch of cliffsides it never had before...

She did a handful more episodes after that in season 2, then one season 3 episode and one season 4 episode.

That's not a slight, even the more prolific writers on the show only did 10-20 episodes over 9 seasons, and almost no one from the first four seasons did scripts in the later seasons, so the show had some turn over.
Merriweather Williams had writing credits on seven episodes from the second through the fourth seasons. Sadly for her, this was her first and is the one she's most well known for. She also wrote "Hearth's Warming Eve" which was fairly okay but also had the Mane Six being pissy at each other for little reason; had a writing credit on "Putting Your Hoof Down" where Fluttershy took a level in bitchdom and is not well liked by her fans; "Dragonquest" which started with all the Mane Six being jerks to each other and/or Spike but was otherwise okay; "Wonderbolts Academy" which I really like and DID request (it's been called her apology for Mare-Do-Well); "Spike At Your Service" which is a close contender for one of the all-time worst episodes and "Bats!" which is okay-ish. All in all, not a great run.

I cannot ever recall of her being invited as a guest to any MLP convention. Granted, not every writer does. There have been around 45 writers, some doing only one or two episodes (like Gail Simone) for one season or others who've been around for most or all of the show. And even the experienced hands produced some sub-par episodes now and again.

As much as I take (deserved) shots at this episode whenever the opportunity presents itself (Linkara has "One More Day," Chuck has "Outrageous Okhana," I have "Mare-Do-Well" ... and 2-3 others) I try not to go after the writer too much. Unlike Star Trek, we don't have multiple inside and verified looks at the inner-workings of the show (the show is too new, the people are still in the writing business, etc.) to know how each episode came to be. I've heard other writers say there is no show "writing room" where they get together to collaborate in coming out with a season's episodes. They all separately write whatever prompt they get and that's the end of it. Seems like a crummy method to me, but whatever.
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Re: My Little Pony: Thanksgiving Show 2

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Cheerilee wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:40 am Regarding Mare-Do-Well, I think it strains credulity to believe that RD's friends always had the right pony in costume at the right time and place to save ponies better in that situation than RD could, and that tells me that RD's "friends" were manufacturing the "accidents" in order to teach RD a lesson. So "helping ponies" wasn't even #2 on their priority list. They were actively putting ponies in harm's way (or at least scaring them half to death) to solve what they probably could've solved using a couple of words (if they weren't all jerks in this episode).


Regarding the Iron Pony competition, I propose that RD blew the initial horseshoe competition because she wasn't taking it seriously. RD's first shot was good, and AJ couldn't match it. Then AJ playfully put RD's second horseshoe on RD's nose, and (since RD was winning and didn't feel the need to continue trying) RD chose to shoot from that position. Which is why RD couldn't hit the side of a barn (unless she was shooting for anything else). But RD was confident that her superior first shot would stand as the mark to beat. It didn't. Playing or not, a loss is a loss, which (combined with AJ's gloating) set off RD's need to win and her need to prove her superiority.

In the first half of the competition, RD gave herself a handicap and fought on level terms with AJ, and managed to tie AJ, with 5 points apiece (which is no small feat, considering AJ has a huge strength advantage, and RD doesn't normally stick to the ground). In the second half of the competition, RD flipped a switch regarding the terms of her handicap, pushing things to the limit of her non-wing ability, and then engaging her wings to tip herself over the edge (without hiding it at all). And the result in the second half was a 10-0 landslide in RD's favor. The results basically showed that RD is competitive without her wings, but if she uses them even just a little bit, then it's no contest.

AJ accused RD of cheating because there are two ponies with personality problems in this episode. AJ has a subtle streak of envy regarding wings and horns, and a need to constantly prove herself that rival's RD's need to constantly prove herself. AJ feels like she is owed a handicap, and to even suggest a no-handicap contest is an insult. The Iron Pony contest began with Rainbow Dash, and her bloated ego, but it ended with Applejack, and her sensitivity over her inferiority complex.


Regarding the tug-of-war portion of the Iron Pony contest, I've gotta disagree with Chuck. RD clearly lost her footing and would have lost the tug-of-war without her wings, but then she engaged her wings. Now, it would have been a dick move for RD to simply put her wings in reverse and add jet power to her leg strength. It would also have been a dick move to take to the sky and then abuse the power of flight to dunk AJ into the mud. But what RD did was, use her wings to flip the stage from horizontal to vertical. Now it's no longer a contest of leg strength and footing, it's a contest of grip strength. And... RD is burning energy trying to maintain this new stage she has come up with. And then RD won by tricking AJ into opening her mouth.

Yes, it is true that, win or lose, there was no way for RD to fall in the mud anymore (and similarly, win or lose, AJ had no choice but to fall in the mud), but victory in a tug-of-war is not necessarily determined by one side falling in the mud. You can also lose by letting go of the rope. (Technically, what matters is the position of the center flag, but effectively, that only happens after someone loses their grip).

RD won that one by using her wings in the least impactful way. Her wings didn't even clinch the victory, her trickery did. I would give RD a Commendation for Original Thinking on that one.
Interesting thoughts!

There were a few things about that episode that stuck out to me on the rewatch. At lot of folks tend to put all or most of the blame on RD, but I think there's a bit to show the honor's a bit more evenly matched than that.

First, after losing the Horseshoe Toss you see Rainbow admitting her feelings; that she hates losing. She isn't being pissy or mean about it, she's just opening herself up to her friend and sharing her feelings--and AJ mocks her for it and then dusts RD's muzzle with her tail in a pretty contemptuous gesture. Also note this is after "Applebuck Season" where Rainbow interrupted Twilight's speech in order to praise Applejack as an amazing athlete to the whole town. So, gotta say, that's a real dick move by AJ here and that's what gets the ball rolling. Hey Twilight, maybe you should dress up as a masked farmer and out-do AJ at farm work.

Also, the barrel race. We see at the start Rainbow looking nervous and AJ, to her credit, is supportive and comforting. And they have nice words to say to each other after its over. But then when Twi announces RD wins...well, Rainbow says with astonishment that she can't believe that she won. That's not gloating, not rubbing AJ's face in it...but AJ's reaction is to frown, literally shove Rainbow Dash down and be angry, saying the contest isn't over yet. Apparently her good sportsmareship ends when she loses.

Besides having a lot of the contests be farm-related or things AJ has an advantage in (barrel racing, rope-work, etc.) her family are the first spectators we see arrive. I'd argue that it was probably as much knowledge of the crowd watching them that egged the two on to win no matter what. Add to that the fact that AJ is the one to tackle Rainbow and start the physical fight at the end and it feels like AJ instigated a lot of this mess but that tends to get frequently overlooked because Rainbow used her wings and because she was less convinced that AJ wouldn't cheat. Not saying that Dash's a saint here or anything, but we have seen a couple of other times where AJ instigates stuff with Dash and it ends up being largely overlooked, at least by a segment of the fanbase.
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sayla0079
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Re: My Little Pony: Thanksgiving Show 2

Post by sayla0079 »

Out of curiosity has Chuck thought of doing anything on the MLP from the 80s (G1)?
ChrisTheLovableJerk
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Re: My Little Pony: Thanksgiving Show 2

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It's honestly a bit odd for me to look back at MLP season one after the show came to an end and we've seen how far it made it, I'm pretty sure no one, not even the cast and crew, thought it would make it past three seasons, and yet it's among the best shows of the 2010's. So looking back at season one, it's rather simple, yet the charm was always there.
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Re: My Little Pony: Thanksgiving Show 2

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ChrisTheLovableJerk wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:09 am It's honestly a bit odd for me to look back at MLP season one after the show came to an end and we've seen how far it made it, I'm pretty sure no one, not even the cast and crew, thought it would make it past three seasons, and yet it's among the best shows of the 2010's. So looking back at season one, it's rather simple, yet the charm was always there.
I've always struggled trying to assess Season 1. This is the season I always have the most difficulty sorting out my feelings for. I think the majority of this season was really good, with several outstanding episodes and only one episode that I actively didn’t like (Owl's Well). But it’s hard filtering out the nostalgia factor and the fact that this was the very first season.

I think the fandom reflects my conflicted feelings. I know a lot of fans who adore the first two seasons and were heartbroken by Lauren Faust’s departure. They really liked the sense of humor the first seasons had; falling back on classic references that younger audiences weren’t as familiar with (Benny Hill, classic Looney Tunes, Music Man) as opposed to later seasons where the humor was a bit more contemporary in its references. Fans of these seasons love the episodes as classics that established a lot of what we come to love in the characters and the show as a whole (the AJ-Rarity bickering, Pinkie’s tenuous grip on reality, etc.) and set up the character arcs we got to see develop across the show.

Others view the early seasons as only a foundation; even if it was good, it can’t reach the heights the show reached by building off of it and so can’t ever really compare. The character development over time was seen as so good that going back to season one seems jarring; the characters lacking some of the nuance they picked up over time. The morals and plots likewise appear a little obvious and basic, reflecting the fact that the show had to cling to the “educational and informational” guidelines. To later fans, the first season feels a bit plain, a bit more boring compared to what came later.

I once tried ranking each episode on a 1-5 scale and averaging each season's total score together. Season 1 tied with Season 5 as the best season of the series. That might have been the nostalgia goggles distorting things a bit, but I still really like those episodes.
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Re: My Little Pony: Thanksgiving Show 2

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I love Chuck's line (paraphrased) "They start trash talking like teenagers who've found out they're mildly good at something"
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Re: My Little Pony: Thanksgiving Show 2

Post by Freeverse »

I have a really long and complicated speech I like to pull out when people start talking about how terrible The Mysterious Mare-Do-Well is, but I'm tired of that so instead I'll just say that... s'okay. The episode is alright. It's nothing special. It's just kinda... fine.

And I'll fight anyone who disagrees. I'm gonna die on this hill, and history will judge me the victor.
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Re: My Little Pony: Thanksgiving Show 2

Post by Admiral X »

Definitely loved the swipe at Blizzard. :lol:
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-TR
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