Doctor Who- Face the Raven.

[Thebestoftherest]

I think that Moffat needed someone to tell him no.

I heard a rumor at the time that the time they made the street just for a spin off.

[BunBun299]

I've gotta say, I've never really gotten the Clara hate. Do I love every episode she's in? No. But I like the majority of them.

I think Clara's self destructive tendencies and reckless behavior in this episode were probably meant to be a result of losing her boyfriend last season. So she didn't have much future to plan for any longer. Top that off with confidence that the Doctor will sort this all out anyway, and she just did not give much thought to self preservation. That's my take on it, anyway. Probably would have been better if writers of other episodes had contributed to building this up.

[CrypticMirror]

I've gotta say, I've never really gotten the Clara hate. Do I love every episode she's in? No. But I like the majority of them.

She was okay during most of the Matt Smith era, the episode with the memory eating star aside, and even the first couple of Capaldi episodes, but then Danny, and that other character that shall not be dignified with a name, really brought out all the worst in her. After that it was all downhill for the character and the show. It isn't the actors' fault, it was just a lot of questionable story telling decisions and Moffat's own bad habits getting out of control which led to the character being poorly written and the stories she was in increasingly losing coherence.

Although I still say that the biggest misstep and worst missed opportunity that Moffat ever made was not setting a story in a certain town in the middle of the Scottish Southern Uplands. You know the one.

[RobbyB1982]

The biggest problem with Clara is she was fantastically charming as the eccentric in the Dalek episode, witty, sharp tounged, and keeping up with the Doctor and that character was great... And then she died.

Then she was an interesting out-of-time character in the Christmas special,a Victorian characte with a modern twist going on adventures would have been a nice change of pace, akin to when we got Leela back when... and then she died.

She would have been an amazing companion as either of those. But then we got the modern normal millenial one just like most of the modern companion and she was by far the most boring with the least interesting hook of the three.. we'd already seen the same actress play the same character better twice. So that was a fail.

She was less a character and more a maguffin mystery... (which Amy and River had already done) and for better or worse even though her plot was wrapped up at the end of the season, where hte mystery was solved and even though she lived... for all intents and purposes... that version of the character died.

She was the companion that was around for the 50th anniversary so she got roped into that.... AND then Matt Smith left a year earlier than Moffat thought he was going to, so instead of spending a final year on Silence and Tranzalore and getting a new set of regenerations and wrapping up everything properly... he crammed that all into a single episode. And that was a mess. That's not on Clara so much, but it really mucked the overall pacing and chemistry in place.

So then we had Clara who was cast specifically to play off of Matt, suddenly paired with a very, VERY different Capaldi... and that's okay, companions have carried over between doctors before, Sarah Jane and Rose noteably, but the doctors were VERY different so the same companion between them was weeeird, to the point they had to specifically tell the audience "no, of course she never treated Matt like her boyfriend. She can get along with the new doctor and just be... different... with him." And so she was playing his conscience and he was written to be mean and angry in his first season (becuase the writers thoguht of Capaldi as angry guy, but thats not how he wanted to play the Doctor.) . And so then that season, with Clara no longer having the original mystery plot to solve, had to get a new thing... so she got the Danny arc. And that ended and her story was told and they got to the Christmas special...

and they gave her a perfect Peter Pan ending. The doctor left her behind and reunited with her 50 years later, she'd had a life without him, surprise tragic end, Moffatt wrote a great sendoff for her. That was a damn near perfect ending.

And then Jenna Coleman decided she wanted to stay on just a little bit longer, so they hastily rewrote her fantastic Christmas ending and shoved her back in... with NO IDEA what to do with her.

And her last season was a complete mess from there.

The same thing happened with Amy and Rory really... had a good farewell... but then the actors wanted to stay on for a little bit longer and then got a much worse sendoff in their half-season instead.


So the big problem with Clara was she was basically five different companions with five different arcs... and the actress should have switched out much sooner than she did.

[BunBun299]

I've gotta say, I've never really gotten the Clara hate. Do I love every episode she's in? No. But I like the majority of them.

She was okay during most of the Matt Smith era, the episode with the memory eating star aside, and even the first couple of Capaldi episodes, but then Danny, and that other character that shall not be dignified with a name, really brought out all the worst in her. After that it was all downhill for the character and the show. It isn't the actors' fault, it was just a lot of questionable story telling decisions and Moffat's own bad habits getting out of control which led to the character being poorly written and the stories she was in increasingly losing coherence.

Although I still say that the biggest misstep and worst missed opportunity that Moffat ever made was not setting a story in a certain town in the middle of the Scottish Southern Uplands. You know the one.

Actually, being an American, who is particularly bad at geography, no, I don't know the one.

[Senko]

My problem's with Clara are 3 fold . . .

1) Mary Sue Wannabe. I use that qualifier of wannabe deliberately she isn't a mary sue but the way she's written comes off as someone thinks that's what they are. She makes decisions, doesn't listen then blames others because obviously its not her fault things went wrong because every decision she makes is obviously the right one. Like her "I have destroyed all but one key now violate the laws of time or I will strand you here and damn the universe."

2) Bickering. There have been unpopular characters before or things that annoyed me in both new who and classic era. However most characters I think back on them and I don't remember the bad moments or wrong choices I remember the amazing ones. Rory's last centurion narration in the museum about his history for example. When it comes to Clara though what I remember is basically she lies, she gets caught, the doctor or Danny tell her off for lying, she tells them off for telling her off and round and round it goes.

3) Overimportance. Most characters have had amazing moments of signifcant actions usually as a finale to say goodbye to them. Clara however (in part because she kept staying on after being rwitten out) goes beyond that and is now not only there at EVERY SINGLE VICTORY to save the doctor justified as stopping the great intelligence but half of the flashes we see don't appear to involve him at all like her "Pick this TARDIS." Then at the end she apparently wipes the doctors memories of hers, gets to the events here and in the next 2 episodes.

4) Friend's with benefits. All the other companions even Amy and Rory travel with the doctor for periods of time. Here is your life, Here is your time with the doctor, here is your life again. Sure Amy and Rory due to various factors do tend to have chunks of their life inbetween visits but when travelling they are only travelling. Clara on the other hand treats him as number 1 on the speeddial like a dial up plumber or electrician to solve her problems while still having her life. Its again a statement that this isn't about him its about her. She wants a holiday call him up go on a trip, come home and go back to work. She burns the turkey call him up get him to pick up a new one, cook it and deliver it for dinner.

5) Coldedale focus. As a result of 4 we get episodes set in Coldedale high and its school kids over and over because that's where Clara's life is so mysterious alien events need to be set there rather than on an alien world, the far future or past. Again admitedly not specifically her fault but it gives us things like the intelligent tree's on earth saving us from solar flares which moves it further from scifi to fantasy and not in a way I like (Your opinions may vary).

Its just too much for me and I didn't even take as much satisfactions at Adric's explicit death as I do over her implicit one (In a significantly later episode). This isn't about the actress but I just don't like the character or how she's presented.

[clearspira]

My problem's with Clara are 3 fold . . .

1) Mary Sue Wannabe. I use that qualifier of wannabe deliberately she isn't a mary sue but the way she's written comes off as someone thinks that's what they are. She makes decisions, doesn't listen then blames others because obviously its not her fault things went wrong because every decision she makes is obviously the right one. Like her "I have destroyed all but one key now violate the laws of time or I will strand you here and damn the universe."

2) Bickering. There have been unpopular characters before or things that annoyed me in both new who and classic era. However most characters I think back on them and I don't remember the bad moments or wrong choices I remember the amazing ones. Rory's last centurion narration in the museum about his history for example. When it comes to Clara though what I remember is basically she lies, she gets caught, the doctor or Danny tell her off for lying, she tells them off for telling her off and round and round it goes.

3) Overimportance. Most characters have had amazing moments of signifcant actions usually as a finale to say goodbye to them. Clara however (in part because she kept staying on after being rwitten out) goes beyond that and is now not only there at EVERY SINGLE VICTORY to save the doctor justified as stopping the great intelligence but half of the flashes we see don't appear to involve him at all like her "Pick this TARDIS." Then at the end she apparently wipes the doctors memories of hers, gets to the events here and in the next 2 episodes.

4) Friend's with benefits. All the other companions even Amy and Rory travel with the doctor for periods of time. Here is your life, Here is your time with the doctor, here is your life again. Sure Amy and Rory due to various factors do tend to have chunks of their life inbetween visits but when travelling they are only travelling. Clara on the other hand treats him as number 1 on the speeddial like a dial up plumber or electrician to solve her problems while still having her life. Its again a statement that this isn't about him its about her. She wants a holiday call him up go on a trip, come home and go back to work. She burns the turkey call him up get him to pick up a new one, cook it and deliver it for dinner.

5) Coldedale focus. As a result of 4 we get episodes set in Coldedale high and its school kids over and over because that's where Clara's life is so mysterious alien events need to be set there rather than on an alien world, the far future or past. Again admitedly not specifically her fault but it gives us things like the intelligent tree's on earth saving us from solar flares which moves it further from scifi to fantasy and not in a way I like (Your opinions may vary).

Its just too much for me and I didn't even take as much satisfactions at Adric's explicit death as I do over her implicit one (In a significantly later episode). This isn't about the actress but I just don't like the character or how she's presented.

I second this

[CrypticMirror]

I've gotta say, I've never really gotten the Clara hate. Do I love every episode she's in? No. But I like the majority of them.

She was okay during most of the Matt Smith era, the episode with the memory eating star aside, and even the first couple of Capaldi episodes, but then Danny, and that other character that shall not be dignified with a name, really brought out all the worst in her. After that it was all downhill for the character and the show. It isn't the actors' fault, it was just a lot of questionable story telling decisions and Moffat's own bad habits getting out of control which led to the character being poorly written and the stories she was in increasingly losing coherence.

Although I still say that the biggest misstep and worst missed opportunity that Moffat ever made was not setting a story in a certain town in the middle of the Scottish Southern Uplands. You know the one.

Actually, being an American, who is particularly bad at geography, no, I don't know the one.

I wouldn't want to give out Spoilers (Sweetie) but if you find Lockerbie and follow the M74 motorway north for about 15 miles, you'll see the one I mean.

[TGLS]

This place, probably.
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.3558068,-3.4758906,12z/

[Linkara]

What frustrated me about Clara was "Into the Dalek." That was the episode that made me realize that Moffat didn't really know what to DO with her.

In that, the Doctor says that Clara is his "carer" - she cares so he doesn't have to, acting as his empathy. I could get behind that - the angry Doctor idea where in this regeneration he's a lot less empathetic and he needs to relearn what it means to give a damn... except in that same episode, we see tragedy and death and someone begging to be remembered after knowing they're going to die... and what happens in the end? Clara shrugs it off and doesn't give a damn. There's your "carer" - the one who probably forgot those people's names because it was just another adventure, just another day at the office.

As stupid as "Kill the Moon" was, I LOVED the ending scene of her calling out the Doctor on his bullshit - of putting her in a horrible, emotionally-trying situation like that. It was patronizing, out of character, and WRONG and she was right to tell him that. And then they completely undo it in "In the Forest of the Night" and that made an already-bad episode even worse and further indicated that Moffat didn't know what to do with her.