JLU - Patriot Act

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

What's interesting is that Chuck's point goes against the spirit of the episode. The Seven Soldiers of Victory are Golden Age heroes. Shining Knight's whole speech to Eiling is about how morals ARE going down the drain with the forwarding of time.

"There it is, the creeping moral decay of the past thousand years."

It's old fashioned heroism, with magic and old fashioned weapons versus a science fiction monster. While I believe Chuck is correct, and the world is slowly getting better, the episode wants us to embrace the idea that civilization is going downhill, and it's only by embracing old ideas that we can be better.

Yeah I don't see how the general is a metaphor for society though. As an antagonistic force, he's similar to Waller's Task Force X, or say even Gwen Stacy's father blasting Spiderman as a vigilante; the idea is that the heroes are radical, be it Spiderman, Superman, or Shining Knight in his example of not following orders.

[clearspira]

What I love about the DCAU is that it is far more heroic than the rest of DC has been in the 21st century. As Linkara noted in his fantastic Jim Sterling style epilogue of the New 52: these people became assholes, and stayed assholes for a long time. 52 Superman was a prick. Superman Returns Superman abandoned his kid. And GOD DAMN the less said about Snyder's take on these characters the better.

It also kind of reinforces what Chuck says here: the heroes that the creators thought we wanted were dark, brooding people who destroy cities and brand people using hot irons. Who would ''do what needed to be done'' rather than what should be done. I also think that is why Marvel has been so successful with its films: these people often fall, but they are all fundamentally good people and you can see that on-screen.

I also wanted to make a quick note about Dean Cain's 1990s Superman in ''Lois and Clark''. Very hindered by budget no doubt, but far closer to what I would consider to be Superman than anything that came after barring DCAU. His supporting cast was excellent too.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

What I love about the DCAU is that it is far more heroic than the rest of DC has been in the 21st century. As Linkara noted in his fantastic Jim Sterling style epilogue of the New 52: these people became assholes, and stayed assholes for a long time. 52 Superman was a prick. Superman Returns Superman abandoned his kid. And GOD DAMN the less said about Snyder's take on these characters the better.

It also kind of reinforces what Chuck says here: the heroes that the creators thought we wanted were dark, brooding people who destroy cities and brand people using hot irons. Who would ''do what needed to be done'' rather than what should be done. I also think that is why Marvel has been so successful with its films: these people often fall, but they are all fundamentally good people and you can see that on-screen.

I also wanted to make a quick note about Dean Cain's 1990s Superman in ''Lois and Clark''. Very hindered by budget no doubt, but far closer to what I would consider to be Superman than anything that came after barring DCAU. His supporting cast was excellent too.

Oh that puts a well spin on things. Thank you.

Interesting to note that my interpretation of Moore's indifference with the Killing Joke is that he didn't really wish for the darker interpretations of the Joker to have as much staying power as it did.

Still though I wouldn't aptly put that Golden Age interpretation as the principal inspiration of Shining Knight remarking on abusive systems of control that go back to the days of Arthur.

[CrypticMirror]

Superman Returns Superman abandoned his kid.

That isn't fair. He didn't know he had a kid, he was off planet the whole time, and when he got back Lois chose not to involve him in the kid's life -as she had a perfect right to do- and had already found a new partner and father for him. Superman was ready to be involved if Lois and the kid wanted him, but otherwise (mostly, there was that one unfortunate scene) respected their wishes. That is not a deadbeat dad, that is a supportive adult. Family is about more than DNA.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Superman Returns Superman abandoned his kid.

That isn't fair. He didn't know he had a kid, he was off planet the whole time, and when he got back Lois chose not to involve him in the kid's life -as she had a perfect right to do- and had already found a new partner and father for him. Superman was ready to be involved if Lois and the kid wanted him, but otherwise (mostly, there was that one unfortunate scene) respected their wishes. That is not a deadbeat dad, that is a supportive adult. Family is about more than DNA.

He's still responsible for due alimony.

[CrypticMirror]

Superman Returns Superman abandoned his kid.

That isn't fair. He didn't know he had a kid, he was off planet the whole time, and when he got back Lois chose not to involve him in the kid's life -as she had a perfect right to do- and had already found a new partner and father for him. Superman was ready to be involved if Lois and the kid wanted him, but otherwise (mostly, there was that one unfortunate scene) respected their wishes. That is not a deadbeat dad, that is a supportive adult. Family is about more than DNA.

He's still responsible for due alimony.

If Lois wants it from him, true. But she doesn't seem to want it. And that is, again, 100% her right. And there is no indication that Clark/Superman would not pay up if she did. That is what makes a deadbeat, the other parent wants some involvement even if it just alimony and they refuse to get involved. Superman isn't asked for anything other than his absence, and occasional aeroplane rescue, and that is what he gives.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Superman Returns Superman abandoned his kid.

That isn't fair. He didn't know he had a kid, he was off planet the whole time, and when he got back Lois chose not to involve him in the kid's life -as she had a perfect right to do- and had already found a new partner and father for him. Superman was ready to be involved if Lois and the kid wanted him, but otherwise (mostly, there was that one unfortunate scene) respected their wishes. That is not a deadbeat dad, that is a supportive adult. Family is about more than DNA.

He's still responsible for due alimony.

If Lois wants it from him, true. But she doesn't seem to want it. And that is, again, 100% her right. And there is no indication that Clark/Superman would not pay up if she did. That is what makes a deadbeat, the other parent wants some involvement even if it just alimony and they refuse to get involved. Superman isn't asked for anything other than his absence, and occasional aeroplane rescue, and that is what he gives.

The movie tie-in comics show her registering the boy's father as "Superman," and shows her clearly filing for alimony. As soon as he steps foot on US soil he is federally obligated to take part in the Child's development, at which we never seem him participate.

Just because James Marsden married her doesn't mean he is financially responsible for the child's well being.

[CrypticMirror]

Superman Returns Superman abandoned his kid.

That isn't fair. He didn't know he had a kid, he was off planet the whole time, and when he got back Lois chose not to involve him in the kid's life -as she had a perfect right to do- and had already found a new partner and father for him. Superman was ready to be involved if Lois and the kid wanted him, but otherwise (mostly, there was that one unfortunate scene) respected their wishes. That is not a deadbeat dad, that is a supportive adult. Family is about more than DNA.

He's still responsible for due alimony.

If Lois wants it from him, true. But she doesn't seem to want it. And that is, again, 100% her right. And there is no indication that Clark/Superman would not pay up if she did. That is what makes a deadbeat, the other parent wants some involvement even if it just alimony and they refuse to get involved. Superman isn't asked for anything other than his absence, and occasional aeroplane rescue, and that is what he gives.

The movie tie-in comics show her registering the boy's father as "Superman," and shows her clearly filing for alimony. As soon as he steps foot on US soil he is federally obligated to take part in the Child's development, at which we never seem him participate.

Just because James Marsden married her doesn't mean he is financially responsible for the child's well being.

Since Cyclops is fine being the kid's dad, and none of them really want Superman involved in their family in the movie, then I am fine with putting him in the clear. If they change their mind, or Cyclops suddenly comes all over MRA over refusing to take care of the kid, and Lois then says she wants Supes to start paying up and he then refuses, then and only then would that make him a deadbeat.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

lol

[Fianna]

Though, as Kevin Smith famously pointed out, given that Lois's memories of finding out Clark was Superman and sleeping with him were erased by an amnesia kiss, when she discovers that her son has superpowers and is almost certainly Superman's kid, her response should have been, "When did you rape me, Superman?"