The Rise of Skywalker (Spoilers: Read at Your Own Risk)

[MrL1992]

Y'know. i defended Lucasfilm from accusations of 'having no plan' but after seeing this, clearly, for the most part, was indeed the case, if not, then they had a knee-jerk change in direction.

Yeah, not a fan. I've like every other recent SW movie these past few years to different degrees but this was aggravating. Some nice moments here and there but, yeah, that Rey reveal just made me audibly sigh 'oh dear'...

Either JJ is just that stubborn or Lucasfilm has become a reactionary company. I'd rather the former!

[Yukaphile]

I was really debating whether or not to post this, and felt very hesitant on whether or not I should, since I said I wanted to pull back, and I wanna keep my word, especially all those times I've said I would leave, then vanished from the forums for only like six hours, at best. And since I think the others here need it. That said... I just had to address something you said here, clearspira. And hey, it will generate discussion anyway, and intelligent discourse should be sought out.

I think your feelings are perfectly valid. That said, how is Rey (at least since I've never watched the new material or checked out the new EU) any more a Mary Sue than Anakin? I know, from Episode II onward, he's so whiny and arrogant that it's very clear he's not a Mary Sue since Lucas was overcompensating because of the backlash. But there are still Sue-ish elements there. Like, how he was introduced in Episode I. He can pilot Podracers, jet engines strapped to a goddamned cockpit, at age nine, and had been doing so far younger. He was simply born from the midi-chlorians because he was that special, that chosen, that pure (granted, L Canon went out of its way to say that Sidious and Plagueis had had a hand in his creation, borrowed from hints of George's ideas, and I think that was a good move, but that applies only to L Canon and M Canon has not come up with anything to explain that yet). He has the greatest Force potential of all, more than the revered Yoda of the last trilogy. He is so untouchably pure, he just worries about others and their well-being and can't stop thinking about them. As much as I dislike The Distressed Watcher, he is right to say Anakin was a goody-goody, with lines like, "Mom, you said the biggest problem in the universe is nobody helps each other." And it doesn't help that the stuff needed to give him more realistic humanity, like having a tussle with a jerkass kid who insisted he cheated to win the Podrace, is not in the final cut of the movie. So there you go. Can you explain? I think the others here, like Mecha82, would really love to hear this.

[MrL1992]

I think your feelings are perfectly valid. That said, how is Rey (at least since I've never watched the new material or checked out the new EU) any more a Mary Sue than Anakin? I know, from Episode II onward, he's so whiny and arrogant that it's very clear he's not a Mary Sue since Lucas was overcompensating because of the backlash. But there are still Sue-ish elements there. Like, how he was introduced in Episode I. He can pilot Podracers, jet engines strapped to a goddamned cockpit, at age nine, and had been doing so far younger. He was simply born from the midi-chlorians because he was that special, that chosen, that pure (granted, L Canon went out of its way to say that Sidious and Plagueis had had a hand in his creation, borrowed from hints of George's ideas, and I think that was a good move, but that applies only to L Canon and M Canon has not come up with anything to explain that yet). He has the greatest Force potential of all, more than the revered Yoda of the last trilogy. He is so untouchably pure, he just worries about others and their well-being and can't stop thinking about them. As much as I dislike The Distressed Watcher, he is right to say Anakin was a goody-goody, with lines like, "Mom, you said the biggest problem in the universe is nobody helps each other." And it doesn't help that the stuff needed to give him more realistic humanity, like having a tussle with a jerkass kid who insisted he cheated to win the Podrace, is not in the final cut of the movie. So there you go. Can you explain? I think the others here, like Mecha82, would really love to hear this.

100% agree. Even with most of us now disappointed and frustrated... we're still debating this s**t?!

If tbis movie was supposed to 'unite' the fanbase, hard fail there.

[Yukaphile]

Yeah, those were just pretty political words, and just as empty, like everything else they say. You can't please everyone, but they wanna unite the fandom? If they were serious about that, why not give Legends fans more content? That billboard proves there's a market. But then they know they don't make up nearly the numbers that even people in a foreign country will in the financial returns they make on these movies, so that's not happening. Plus they are too terrified to try anything new that does not guarantee a return on their investment, and L Canon, whether you hate it or not, was still trying to do something new.

[MrL1992]

Maybe thd direction of VIII didn't work for everybody hut it still did for a lot of people. Including myself. If Episode IX had actually tried to follow up on it, then at least one part of the fanbase would have been happy with the trilogy as a whole. As opposed no one (figuratively speaking). Then they could have moved omto to other projects that may have appealed to the sensibilities of other fans.

[clearspira]

I was really debating whether or not to post this, and felt very hesitant on whether or not I should, since I said I wanted to pull back, and I wanna keep my word, especially all those times I've said I would leave, then vanished from the forums for only like six hours, at best. And since I think the others here need it. That said... I just had to address something you said here, clearspira. And hey, it will generate discussion anyway, and intelligent discourse should be sought out.

I think your feelings are perfectly valid. That said, how is Rey (at least since I've never watched the new material or checked out the new EU) any more a Mary Sue than Anakin? I know, from Episode II onward, he's so whiny and arrogant that it's very clear he's not a Mary Sue since Lucas was overcompensating because of the backlash. But there are still Sue-ish elements there. Like, how he was introduced in Episode I. He can pilot Podracers, jet engines strapped to a goddamned cockpit, at age nine, and had been doing so far younger. He was simply born from the midi-chlorians because he was that special, that chosen, that pure (granted, L Canon went out of its way to say that Sidious and Plagueis had had a hand in his creation, borrowed from hints of George's ideas, and I think that was a good move, but that applies only to L Canon and M Canon has not come up with anything to explain that yet). He has the greatest Force potential of all, more than the revered Yoda of the last trilogy. He is so untouchably pure, he just worries about others and their well-being and can't stop thinking about them. As much as I dislike The Distressed Watcher, he is right to say Anakin was a goody-goody, with lines like, "Mom, you said the biggest problem in the universe is nobody helps each other." And it doesn't help that the stuff needed to give him more realistic humanity, like having a tussle with a jerkass kid who insisted he cheated to win the Podrace, is not in the final cut of the movie. So there you go. Can you explain? I think the others here, like Mecha82, would really love to hear this.

Kid Anakin is a perfect, mop-top little boy with too many skills for his age. Sue status is very arguable with him no question. But adult Anakin has far too many flaws to be a Sue. And what helps is that we are introduced to him as the Chosen of the Force so it made a lot of sense for him to be these things. I refuse to sit here and accept that any of the justifications that Abrams pulled out of his ass to try and save Rey redeems the shitty way in which she was written prior to this. TLJ was where the revelation of being Palpatine's granddaughter should have been if this narrative was planned from the start.

As I say though, she is now beyond being a Sue. She has achieved demi-god status now that she is the granddaughter of Zeus and probably daughter to Mary Poppins (being practically perfect in every way). How else do you explain that junker of a ship that Rey's parents left in the desert being instantly spaceworthy after all of this time if it wasn't powered by a Magical Umbrella Drive? How else do you explain the healing abilities that every Force user apparently now has if she isn't carrying around a bottle of magic medicine that she is sharing around? It all fits, and if I may say so, it probably would have made for a better film than what I just watched.

[clearspira]

Oh, and by the way, I have another observation to add to my list and yet one more clue that TLJ has been retconned: Broom Boy. What the F- happened to Broom Boy? I guess like all things concerning Rose and Finn between then and now we will never know as they are no longer characters of substance in this film.

[excalibur]

I've heard some people would compare these types of movies to a turn your brain of fast and furious movie. The difference is we know what we were getting into with those movies. A Star Wars movie carries with it a legacy of good story telling and good characters and none of these recent movies have done any of that

[MrL1992]

Oh, and by the way, I have another observation to add to my list and yet one more clue that TLJ has been retconned: Broom Boy. What the F- happened to Broom Boy? I guess like all things concerning Rose and Finn between then and now we will never know as they are no longer characters of substance in this film.

'Broom Boy' as you call him, was never meant to go anywhere. He was there to show the effect of Luke's legend spreading as well as further the idea that the Force flows through everyone.

[clearspira]

Oh, and by the way, I have another observation to add to my list and yet one more clue that TLJ has been retconned: Broom Boy. What the F- happened to Broom Boy? I guess like all things concerning Rose and Finn between then and now we will never know as they are no longer characters of substance in this film.

'Broom Boy' as you call him, was never meant to go anywhere. He was there to show the effect of Luke's legend spreading as well as further the idea that the Force flows through everyone.

Rating as one of the most pointless subplots in all of Star Wars. Why? Because finding random children who are one with the Force is apparently so commonplace that Qui Gon was carrying around a blood sampler inside his robe for just that occasion. One of only five things we know that he took to his meeting to resolve what he believed to be a simple trade dispute: his lightsaber, his communicator, his grappling hook, and his rebreather. Clearly someone who travels so sparse and for all he knew was only going for a chat and a coffee would have left the blood sampler behind if it wasn't used much?
And if that wasn't enough we also have the children of the Jedi temple who are clearly just a random bunch of kids.

I would love to know if Rian actually watched the other films in the series, he does after all freely admit to not being a fan.