Dr. Who - Hell Bent

[MerelyAFan]

Agree, plus nothing ever came of Clara and Ashildir, I can only guess everyone else at BBC realize that be uninteresting and more trouble than it worth.

That or potential fodder for its inevitable Big Finish spin-off.

[Thebestoftherest]

Agree, plus nothing ever came of Clara and Ashildir, I can only guess everyone else at BBC realize that be uninteresting and more trouble than it worth.

That or potential fodder for its inevitable Big Finish spin-off.

So? They have a big finished for almost everything doctor who related, it doesn't effect the shows.

[MerelyAFan]

Agree, plus nothing ever came of Clara and Ashildir, I can only guess everyone else at BBC realize that be uninteresting and more trouble than it worth.

That or potential fodder for its inevitable Big Finish spin-off.

So? They have a big finished for almost everything doctor who related, it doesn't effect the shows.

I didn't say it did, just giving a guess as to the reason for its existence and potential use in other media.

[Linkara]

Diamanda Hagan's review of Hell Bent is VERY thorough in all the various problems with this story and I highly recommend it, though Chuck definitely brings up the big point that I had - ten years waited for Gallifrey's proper return, a story where the Doctor returns and Time Lord stuff happens... and it's barely a factor in anything other than a means to get Clara back. And frankly I personally object to all the hero worship the Gallifreyans had of the Doctor - particularly the military.

One thing that also bugged me about the Time War under Moffat's tenure is that for someone who has so much imagination and elaborate means of servicing a story end that he wants... he made the Time War friggin' BORING. Davies kept throwing out these weird, imaginative horrors of the Time War, creatures and beings that sound like the stuff of nightmares... but when we actually see parts of the Time War under Moffat's tenure, it's just Time Lords and Daleks shooting each other.

[MerelyAFan]

Diamanda Hagan's review of Hell Bent is VERY thorough in all the various problems with this story and I highly recommend it, though Chuck definitely brings up the big point that I had - ten years waited for Gallifrey's proper return, a story where the Doctor returns and Time Lord stuff happens... and it's barely a factor in anything other than a means to get Clara back. And frankly I personally object to all the hero worship the Gallifreyans had of the Doctor - particularly the military.

One thing that also bugged me about the Time War under Moffat's tenure is that for someone who has so much imagination and elaborate means of servicing a story end that he wants... he made the Time War friggin' BORING. Davies kept throwing out these weird, imaginative horrors of the Time War, creatures and beings that sound like the stuff of nightmares... but when we actually see parts of the Time War under Moffat's tenure, it's just Time Lords and Daleks shooting each other.

I have seen some justifications that the bits seen under Moffat's run were basically the final days of the war when most of the reality/time based weapons were basically gone and both sides were fighting with the galactic equivalent of sticks and stones. While that might be true, it makes the decision to highlight that portion of it all the more uninteresting, given the hints at what it once was.

Even Big Finish, which has been very hit and miss in its depiction of the Time War, has at least ventured into somewhat disturbing territory like the Neverwhen, where Time Lords and Daleks are literally phasing back and forth through their own evolutionary history while fighting each other. Even more than that, the Seasons of War anthology book really delves into the horror of how history constantly being rewritten has affected universe in numerous ways.

[RobbyB1982]

Gardeners - writers who write by the seat of their pants, and so typically have vibrant and believable characters - usually don't plan the ending in detail when they write, while Architects - planners - typically do and so can foreshadow and make their endings live up to the promises. Does anyone know Mr. Moffet's style?

Moffat is definitely the planner type. His issue is he figures out the big overall plan, the twist or hook that makes it all come together, but doesn't quite have the details in the middle, or the nature of running a show itself gets in the way with actors leaving sooner or later than the actual story demands, and he doesn't really have a method to work around that the way say, Babylon 5 had outs for every major character..

River Song is a pretty clear example of where he knew the ending (he started with it after all) and probably knew the beginning and some of the tentpole events... but didn't know the middle which is why you end up with things like River's previous regeneration being a character the cast knew but that we had never met prior to that. Or that her casting was clearly meant to play mostly off Tennant, and not off Smith who was 20 years younger than her.

Similarly, and I've said it before, but its really REALLY clear from certain pacing issues around the 50th anniversary that he thought he'd have Matt Smith for one more year than he did, he was setting up an entire season arc to go find Gallifrey again and deal with the Silence and play wtht he fact we now knew Smith was the "last" regeneration wince we were now counting Tennant as two regens and War ... but didn't want to burden the next actor with those story arc points or meaty bits, so rushed through a season's worth of material in one episode to do the handoff. NO ONE would have written the ending to the 50th the way he did if they knew it was going to be resolved in the very next episode. And probably would have glossed over Tennant having used one up if he'd thought he could get that mileage out of Capaldi instead.

Similarly, with every companion in his era, he gave them fantastic send offs, endings he'd clearly thought long and hard about... but then the actors changed their minds and wanted to stay around longer... so they then just get partial seasons with no idea what to do with them and much more lackluster sendoffs.

[thetrueelec]

I love Hell Bent, Clara's arc of becoming more and more like The Doctor comes to a perfect end with her getting a time machine and a companion

[Wargriffin]

Gardeners - writers who write by the seat of their pants, and so typically have vibrant and believable characters - usually don't plan the ending in detail when they write, while Architects - planners - typically do and so can foreshadow and make their endings live up to the promises. Does anyone know Mr. Moffet's style?

River Song is a pretty clear example of where he knew the ending (he started with it after all) and probably knew the beginning and some of the tentpole events... but didn't know the middle which is why you end up with things like River's previous regeneration being a character the cast knew but that we had never met prior to that. Or that her casting was clearly meant to play mostly off Tennant, and not off Smith who was 20 years younger than her.

Clara's a case of she was cast with 11 in mind.

River and 12 had great chemistry together in Husbands of River Song,

[hypocratus]

This was the episode of the new Doctor Who that made me stop watching. I remember when I was watching it all I could think is that I wanted it to end but it just wouldn't. I had less trouble with 'Kill the Moon' in terms of being able to watch it. Both are horrible episodes though.

[CrypticMirror]

We finally get a classic TARDIS interior in NuWho and it is in this garbage. I like to find the best in Who, and I usually love the cheesiness and weird stuff, but this.... And the less said about the whole shooting the general and regeneration the better. Between that and the character who shall not be named, no not that one, the other one, no not that other one, the other other one, this ought to have been a massive red flag. I'm kinda glad we never got the Terileptils returning in NuWho now, god only knows how Moffatnall would screw those up.

Moffat is definitely the planner type. His issue is he figures out the big overall plan, the twist or hook that makes it all come together, but doesn't quite have the details in the middle, or the nature of running a show itself gets in the way with actors leaving sooner or later than the actual story demands, and he doesn't really have a method to work around that the way say, Babylon 5 had outs for every major character..

He also didn't have JMS's fortitude to fire someone either. Clara's story was over and done at the previous Christmas Special, then the actress changed her mind at the last minute and wanted to stay. JMS would have put the foot down and told her no, but Moffy let her stay. Clara ought to have been over and done long before this point.

Regarding Gallifrey, I always got the feeling previously that the Doctor wanted it back but never wanted to go back. He wanted it so it existed for him to rebel against like the old days. As the last Timelord he was truly rudderless, but with G back he was the highrolling rebel sticking two fingers up at the old stick in the muds again. And that is how he liked it. Then this whole thing. This whole damn thing, ugh.