ENT - Bound

[clearspira]

Yeah, this plotline has been done to death. Sad thing is, this isn't the death knell of it either. Years later, Agents of SHIELD season 1 did it, beat for beat, with an Asgardian witch or something basically mindraping Grand Ward, and he was even blamed for it by the end of the episode by his girlfriend. Jessica Jones at least showed that it's not cute, it's not funny, and it's not a good time to be had. It's horrifying, and it would be a nightmare for anyone under such a thing. And like this episode, the Agents of SHIELD one is brushed off in later episodes.

You know what would have been interesting? Have one of the Orions be a guy, or have some of the women on-board be interested. Or, because of sexuality, some of the male Enterprise crew members get the same migraines. Do something interesting.

I like the idea don't get me wrong, the problem is that the Berman era straight up hated anyone who wasn't cis-het. And I do not think that is an unfair statement to make. 1960s-1980s Trek having no gay characters makes sense if you want to be charitable. But this is 2005 - the year in which I would like to remind everyone that ''Brokeback Mountain'' won 3 Oscars, 4 Globes, and 4 BAFTAs.
And what have we had for representation in Trek by this point? The TNG episode with the genderless beings that was straight up embarrassed about its subject matter, the Mirror universe that treated bisexuality and lesbianism as something that only evil people do and/or as fanservice, and the infamous Jadzia lesbian kiss that wasn't actually a lesbian kiss because it was just Jadzia being overtaken by her former memories. That's it.

In a way, when put into this context, ''Bound'' is even more embarrassing. A TOS episode thirty years late. Oh, and lets not forget Reed. The moment it was rumoured that he was gay, the producers gave us ''Shuttlepod 1'' and had him sending love letters to half a dozen women. I hate Discovery and I hate the Kelvinverse, but at least gays actually actually exist now.

[AndrewGPaul]

For anyone who isn’t a TV screenwriter, finding the green dancing girls “interesting” just means “one for the spank bank” and it’s kept mercifully private. Except for DeviantArt, I suppose.

Offhand, the only sf novels I can think of that deal with sex workers’ rights are Ringworld and The Rainbow Credenza, although I’ve not read that second one in over twenty years, so the details are hazy. Oh, and it’s occasionally mentioned in the background of the Vorkosigan novels, and I don’t know whether Larry Niven addressed the topic in any other Known Space stories.

Finally, whatever video player this episode uses doesn’t seem to allow me to watch it in full-screen on an iPad.

[Strejdaking]

Damn it Chuck, you've clearly stole your idea for Orion Slave Girls as allegory for sex work from me, while I had it occur to me years ago and never told anybody ever!

Seriously though, that was exactly what I would have done and was suprised Chuck sees it the same way. That said, the way Chuck presents the argument isn't really how I've seen it. The other side isn't people concerned about societal perspective, generally it's people pointing out that many sex workes are treated like shit, when not outright genuinely being sex slaves, while the other side argues keeing it illegal is only making it harder for them and less likely to get help and protection and taking down sex traffickers.

[AlucardNoir]

While there are a lot of thing to be said about this episode the morality and legality arguments you kept harping about chuck are not on that list. Why does it matter if slavery is moral or immoral if it's legal? And yes, I know we'd all like to think the law is there because at least at some point people thought of it as the morally justified, but let's be frank here, the law is what it is because the people in power wanted it that way. Hell, 200 years ago in England there was this thing called the "Bloody Code". It was called that because death was the punishment for most crimes. Turns out people didn't think of the code was that moral and because England had -and still has- a jury trial system jurors usually "found" the defendants not guilty of those crimes that would have gotten them hanged and guilty of the few crimes that wouldn't get them hanged.

Morality is all good and dandy, but in this particular case legality is what really mattered. Even if humans thought slavery was ok, because slavery was illegal in that case those Orian women would have been free women the moment they became Starfleet "property" and touched the deck of the Enterprise.

Again, there's a lot to be said about this episode but Archer not starting the conversation with humanities moral viewpoint on slavery is not one of them. Sure, Archer should have been there when the women arrived on the Enterprise and told them: "Ladies, congratulations, you're now free women." hell, he should have probably done that on the shuttle the moment they left the Orion ship. But no, morality should not have been the starting point of that conversation.

If I told you that in my country we believe all murder is immoral, including in cases of self defense you'd probably ask if that meant murder in self defense was illegal. Why? because, unless I lived in some backwater country were the law is just some informal thing people reference from time to time you wouldn't expect to be "lynched", mobed or "stoned" if you killed someone in self defense because people thought it was immoral, but you would like to know if you being attacked was a loose-loose situation when it came to the law. Similarly, in this case it wouldn't matter if Archer was the greatest anti slavery advocate Earth had ever produced, not if slavery was legal and those women were recognized as Starfleet property the moment they touched the deck of the Enterprise.

[Rodan56]

We can never seem to have a series where a sexually active adult of any gender or species is anything other than a creep or villain. Specifically, most men who are sexually active in shows are played for laughs, see Quagmire. Ha ha! It's implied he date rapes women! Ain't that wacky? Woman who are sexually active? THEY WANT TO ENSLAVE MEN! AAAAHHH!

I hate this shit, it's sex negative for one and it's sexist in more ways than one.

Anyway, Chuck is doing a comic for next week? Neat! I haven't read Age of Ultron actually, so I'm interested in hearing about this. So is this like a crossover with someone specific we all know or...?

[clearspira]

While there are a lot of thing to be said about this episode the morality and legality arguments you kept harping about chuck are not on that list. Why does it matter if slavery is moral or immoral if it's legal? And yes, I know we'd all like to think the law is there because at least at some point people thought of it as the morally justified, but let's be frank here, the law is what it is because the people in power wanted it that way. Hell, 200 years ago in England there was this thing called the "Bloody Code". It was called that because death was the punishment for most crimes. Turns out people didn't think of the code was that moral and because England had -and still has- a jury trial system jurors usually "found" the defendants not guilty of those crimes that would have gotten them hanged and guilty of the few crimes that wouldn't get them hanged.

Morality is all good and dandy, but in this particular case legality is what really mattered. Even if humans thought slavery was ok, because slavery was illegal in that case those Orian women would have been free women the moment they became Starfleet "property" and touched the deck of the Enterprise.

Again, there's a lot to be said about this episode but Archer not starting the conversation with humanities moral viewpoint on slavery is not one of them. Sure, Archer should have been there when the women arrived on the Enterprise and told them: "Ladies, congratulations, you're now free women." hell, he should have probably done that on the shuttle the moment they left the Orion ship. But no, morality should not have been the starting point of that conversation.

If I told you that in my country we believe all murder is immoral, including in cases of self defense you'd probably ask if that meant murder in self defense was illegal. Why? because, unless I lived in some backwater country were the law is just some informal thing people reference from time to time you wouldn't expect to be "lynched", mobed or "stoned" if you killed someone in self defense because people thought it was immoral, but you would like to know if you being attacked was a loose-loose situation when it came to the law. Similarly, in this case it wouldn't matter if Archer was the greatest anti slavery advocate Earth had ever produced, not if slavery was legal and those women were recognized as Starfleet property the moment they touched the deck of the Enterprise.

Did you miss the part where he used ''killing kittens'' as an example as to why the lawful thing to do is by no means the same as ''the correct thing to do?'' You have just explained exactly what he was talking about just in a more long-winded way.

[clearspira]

We can never seem to have a series where a sexually active adult of any gender or species is anything other than a creep or villain. Specifically, most men who are sexually active in shows are played for laughs, see Quagmire. Ha ha! It's implied he date rapes women! Ain't that wacky? Woman who are sexually active? THEY WANT TO ENSLAVE MEN! AAAAHHH!

I hate this shit, it's sex negative for one and it's sexist in more ways than one.

Anyway, Chuck is doing a comic for next week? Neat! I haven't read Age of Ultron actually, so I'm interested in hearing about this. So is this like a crossover with someone specific we all know or...?

I can tell you this much: Age of Ultron is NOTHING like the film. Not one bit.

I assumed ''crossover'' referred to its nature as an Event comic that ''crosses over'' multiple lines rather than a joint review. Not that I wouldn't love a video with both Chuck and Linkara in it, but Chuck's choice not to show his face would make a comic review done in the latter's usual style difficult.

[Thebestoftherest]

I fine it funny if Linkara response to Chuck like, 'I am hearing voices'.

[Rodan56]

I can tell you this much: Age of Ultron is NOTHING like the film. Not one bit.

I assumed ''crossover'' referred to its nature as an Event comic that ''crosses over'' multiple lines rather than a joint review. Not that I wouldn't love a video with both Chuck and Linkara in it, but Chuck's choice not to show his face would make a comic review done in the latter's usual style difficult.

I know that much at least.

He could always just show his title card only or have Lewis do voice over instead of showing his own face. Although my "Or" comment was more like me asking if that was just the nature of the event, not an actual description of what the review was going to be.

Apologies, should've made that clearer.

[Thebestoftherest]

Wait what this about Chuck doing age of Ultron?