The crimes of Kathryn Janeway

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drewder
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The crimes of Kathryn Janeway

Post by drewder »

So if you're trying to argue for chuck's interpretation of Janeway the sociopath it would be nice to have a condensed list of her crimes against humanity. So the challenge of this thread is to list examples that support the Janeway is evil argument.
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CrypticMirror
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Re: The crimes of Kathryn Janeway

Post by CrypticMirror »

Negligent homicide of everybody that died while in the Delta Quadrant thanks to her conscious decision to strand her crew there. Murder in the First for Tuvix. High Crimes and Misdemeanours (i.e. High Treason in giving the Borg Material Aid and Comfort with those nanobombs), multiple violations of the Prime Directive across the entire series, Cruel and Unusual punishment of Tom Paris (solitary confinement is considered a form of torture) in the waterworld episode, and abuse of the Starfleet Code of Conduct to make an example out of Harry Kim for fuckin' an alien when he got that glow in the dark STD.
Worffan101
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Re: The crimes of Kathryn Janeway

Post by Worffan101 »

Off the top of my head, the most obvious crimes are:

Episode Scorpion:
  • Crimes against sapient life (aiding and abetting the omnicidal Borg Collective against another species)
  • Accessory to genocide (aiding and abetting the Borg Collective, allowing the Borg to wipe out at least two more species)
  • High treason (aiding and abetting the Borg Collective, an entity that is by its own admission in a permanent and unalterable state of war with the UFP) <-- this would be a capital crime in most modern countries, she's lucky the Federation doesn't do the death penalty. Either way her career should be over on the spot.
  • Dereliction of duty (disobeying standing orders to do everything necessary and possible to take action against the Borg Collective)
  • War crimes (this one's arguable, but using the equivalent of bioweapons against Species 8472)
  • Conduct unbecoming of a Starfleet officer (allying with the Borg out of apparent racism, disobeying standing orders to always do First Contact peacefully)
  • Disobeying orders (Directive 010, "Before engaging alien species in battle, any and all attempts to make first contact and achieve nonmilitary resolution must be made.")
Janeway would likely counter by citing regulation 3 paragraph 12, but that really doesn't hold up to intentionally flying through Borg space and actively offering to participate in genocide to get home a few years faster.

Episode Tuvix:
Murder 1 (of Tuvix)

Episode The Disease:
Abuse of authority (arguable, but given her blatant hypocrisy this is probably gonna pass a court martial)

Episode Thirty Days:
Abuse of authority (see above)

In multiple cases, Janeway violated the Prime Directive, but was generally inconsistent in doing so, which could be construed as legally actionable.

Episode Homestead:
Disobeying orders & Dereliction of duty (Directive 010 violation)

Episode Endgame:
Disobeying orders and dereliction of duty (Temporal Prime Directive violation--the TPD is bullshit but Janeway's reasons are clearly insufficient to risk a major Borg invasion).

Sure there's more I'm missing.
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Durandal_1707
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Re: The crimes of Kathryn Janeway

Post by Durandal_1707 »

For me, the list begins and ends with assisting the Borg, for reasons already spelled out by others.

You could bring more things into it, but I don't really think you need to.
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clearspira
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Re: The crimes of Kathryn Janeway

Post by clearspira »

I'm being 100% serious about this: she gave Neelix a job. A man who has proven himself to be dangerously incompetent. Although I want to note that I am not talking about cheese. It was once pointed out on this very forum that if he was on ANY OTHER SHIP not powered by bags of goo he would have gotten away with the mac and cheese that he wanted to make perfectly fine. That near-disaster was on Starfleet.
No, I am talking about things like getting Hogan killed in ''Basics'' or dragging Torres down a cliff in ''Meld''.
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Eishtmo
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Re: The crimes of Kathryn Janeway

Post by Eishtmo »

No, it's not a crime for her to give Neelix a job. The crime was not firing him when it was obvious he wasn't fit for said job.
Worffan101
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Re: The crimes of Kathryn Janeway

Post by Worffan101 »

Also, she tortured and attempted to murder a prisoner in "Equinox".

Here's my buddy's take on "Scorpion":
[url]https://www.quora.com/Was-Captain-Janeway-a-hypocrite-for-punishing-the-USS-Equinox-for-breaking-the-Prime-Directive-when-she-broke-it-numerous-times/answer/Aaron-Davis-382?ch=99&share=277e345a&srid=uNQv1[/url]
So let’s recap. I’ll be using the real-life Uniform Code of Military Justice for this.
  • Specification The First: Article 92, Failure to Obey Order or Regulation.[1] Intervening in a military conflict between third parties in violation of General Order One.
  • Specification The Second: Article 92, Failure to Obey Order or Regulation. Making war on an uncontacted civilization without first attempting to make peaceful contact, in violation of Directive 010.
  • Specification The Third: Article 92, Failure to Obey Order or Regulation. Violated standing orders to do one’s utmost to destroy the Borg.
  • Specification The Fourth: Article 99(8), Misbehavior Before the Enemy.[2] Willful failure to to one’s utmost to destroy the Borg.
  • Specification The Fifth: Article 103b(2), Aiding the Enemy.[3] Knowingly protected and gave intelligence to the Borg.
  • Specification The Sixth: Article 133, Conduct Unbecoming an Officer.[4] Assumed without evidence that the non-humanoid was the villain and the humanoid was not, thereby demonstrating a xenophobic attitude unworthy of an officer of the Federation Starfleet.
That's six felony counts in one incident, two of which carry the death penalty. Compared to Janeway, Ransom’s “only” guilty of murder.
Darth Wedgius
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Re: The crimes of Kathryn Janeway

Post by Darth Wedgius »

She allowed Neelix to pick out his own wardrobe. She didn't make him dress that way, but it's her duty to prevent crimes against sentients in her crew when she's clearly aware of them. In my headcanon, those outfits are what really kept the Borg from wanting to assimilate Voyager.
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Wargriffin
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Re: The crimes of Kathryn Janeway

Post by Wargriffin »

Eishtmo wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:12 am No, it's not a crime for her to give Neelix a job. The crime was not firing him when it was obvious he wasn't fit for said job.
is this before or after we take into account he got people blatantly killed?
"When you rule by fear, your greatest weakness is the one who's no longer afraid."
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CrypticMirror
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Re: The crimes of Kathryn Janeway

Post by CrypticMirror »

Darth Wedgius wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:57 am She allowed Neelix to pick out his own wardrobe. She didn't make him dress that way, but it's her duty to prevent crimes against sentients in her crew when she's clearly aware of them. In my headcanon, those outfits are what really kept the Borg from wanting to assimilate Voyager.
That is a point, she made him a chef but he's never shown wearing a hair net or gloves, he wearws the same clothes in the kitchen as he does everywhere else on the ship, and we've seen him taste stuff out of the pot more than once and then put the same spoon he just used for tasting back in the food without washing it. These are all things that get you fired for breaking food safety laws at any restaurant or food prep facility in the western world right now; and if a health inspector finds out will get you shut down. So it might be small potatoes compared to genocide, murder, and treason, but we can throw in breaking food safety laws too by letting Neelix continue to do that.

If she was going to let him be a chef then hairnet or hat to prevent hair in the food, change of clothes to prevent casual transfer of germs or contaminants, and absolutely not putting a spoon that has been used for tasting back in the food afterwards. She does none of that, at all, and as Captain she is the one liable. Also Neelix constantly creates a hostile work environment, either by stalking Tuvok all over the place or, in early seasons, by getting into fights with Tom Paris because of his insane jealousy and possessiveness of Kes.
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