The Rise of Skywalker (Spoilers: Read at Your Own Risk)

[Wargriffin]

Point remains the Jedi have power, and after all the endless wars through time, you have to wonder if indeed there is some push-back effect, you begin to see how utterly meaningless it is to try and keep the peace, when war is inevitable, and always will be. Hell, even after the Imperial era, there is conflict 100 years into the future. And don't think for a moment the Disney canon wouldn't do the same. Why? Because it's the STAR WARS. That sells. And there is no denying the Force escalates the innate conflict inherent in all beings. Again, imagine if we had superpowers in our own world? It would be a disaster of biblical proportions. Which is what we see play out through Legends and new canon and it will continue far beyond.

and the Point Remains is the Jedi are legit the only people who use that power for the benefit of others... even when those ungrateful dicks will sell them out, hate them irrationally cause they can't accept the idea of people being selfless cause THEY would never be that way with powers or don't even TRY to understand the burden.

They fight on in spite of it, encouraging Hope, encouraging Understanding, encouraging Peace

Putting Their very lives down in service of others.

[Yukaphile]

It is true. However, I do have to note that the Force is generated by living beings, and life is chaotic. I've said this over and over. Thus, it is entirely logical to wonder if their actions create a push-back action much further down the line. You know, butterfly effect? Karma and so on? That kinda thinking. I mean, they still haven't ushered in the golden age of harmony in 25,000 years. The Culture has already done this in its own verse. And you can't entirely blame the Sith. In Legends, a thousand years before the era of Bane, they were keeping Sith artifacts in the Jedi Temple, so it's no wonder a fallen Jedi used them to rebuild the Sith Order. Hell, even Picard knew it was best to destroy the Stone of Gol rather than keep it for historical research, since "some things are best left in the past."

[Wargriffin]

A golden age of Harmony?

No its not the Sith fault, cause for every 1 Selfish person with Darkside powers... there is about a 1000 selfish people without it that gladly due just as many horrible things as the sith. You cannot stop People from being Dicks. Life hurts and its how you deal with it. You can move on and keep trying to do good, or you can sit there and wallow in self pity cause you want it to be easy.


so you're saying Good intentioned actions cause Karma and Butterfly effect of bad events later... oh wait " You don't know the consequences of what your actions may bring, Ergo its safer to respond with inaction"

I always knew you were that type of Trekkie

Again What happens in the future has no bearing in the present, only that the Present allows that future action. The idea that the force reacts to those events and thus creates its conflict absolves People of their Agency and misses the first point of the Force.

Hate is simply hate, Hate that is acted on causes Suffering.

Love is simply love, Love that is acted on causes Happiness

[Mecha82]

While Jedi Order had it's faults after defeating Sith Empire that Rule of Two era Sith took advantage of no one can blame Jedi for not trying to help those in need. Sure they could had tried to do more than they did but I am sure there is no way that they could had changed Galaxy. They fall come from they own hubris and dedication to Republic over serving will of The Force that had them blinded.

[AquaReggie]

Point remains the Jedi have power, and after all the endless wars through time, you have to wonder if indeed there is some push-back effect, you begin to see how utterly meaningless it is to try and keep the peace, when war is inevitable, and always will be. Hell, even after the Imperial era, there is conflict 100 years into the future. And don't think for a moment the Disney canon wouldn't do the same. Why? Because it's the STAR WARS. That sells. And there is no denying the Force escalates the innate conflict inherent in all beings. Again, imagine if we had superpowers in our own world? It would be a disaster of biblical proportions. Which is what we see play out through Legends and new canon and it will continue far beyond.

To unpack this - I think you have a valid point that there are out of universe forces that conspire to keep the world of Star Wars from getting too dull, and thus the in-universe situation of the galaxy becomes a crapsack where it's impossible to ever remove the Sith or even a specific repressive state like the Galactic Empire. It's a similar reason for why Big Two comics get tiresome to me.

However, I don't agree that with your thesis that on a Watsonian level the Force is a malevolent puppetmaster or that strong Jedi and strong Sith are equivalently bad. You basically have to twist the themes of Star Wars so that the Force becomes something like the shards from Worm/Ward in encouraging whatever behavior patterns are worst for a person, even for heroic or gray characters.

Basically Star Wars morality is usually as shallow as a puddle because Lucas mixed Western pure good/evil dualism with philosophies that are more about excess of any desire, or disharmony against natural order being bad. And none of that made the original Star Wars movies bad films. I'm merely saying that if you want greater complexity its probably best to just look elsewhere.

[Yukaphile]

Never said the Force was a puppet master. My view is it's generated by life, and so any "will" it has is just the natural state of life. And life is conflict. We're barely out of the jungle on this planet, so just imagine what it's like for their universe. The Jedi philosophy could bring peace, if it's not adhered to that dogmatically, but it requires enlightenment, and bringing it to the masses, and having it be a choice. And since we have free will, but don't appreciate it enough, there is where it's likely to never happen. At least in-universe.

[Darth Wedgius]

So... "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil"?

[Yukaphile]

That was cringe. Vader should NEVER see the Jedi as evil, merely weak, and unwilling to do what must be done.

[Yukaphile]

Seriously, who the hell was this movie made for? Well, it seems Abrams wanted to do the exact same thing he'd done with Force Awakens, which is to try and plaster a little bit of everything into the new material. Kinda what Lucas did, only with far less finesse. It's basically the "recanonizing" of Dark Empire, so the thinking is that will bring in the Legends fans, it's Palpatine coming back, who is massively popular as an online meme, and it's also a retelling of Return of the Jedi, so everyone will be happy!

I mean, I find their views towards the fans and the older material to be entirely hypocritical, and with Lucasfilm having gone on silent running past their official Twitter bullies, there are thousands of questions we can't ask them now, sadly.

[Wargriffin]

I still say if Han and Leia took Luke's kid, they should have given Luke Their kids! 'They got Ben, He gets Jacen, Jaina and Anakin'