DS:9 "What You Leave Behind"

[The Romulan Republic]

Why did Chuck have to call her Sanders?

Yeah, I know the reason, but now whenever I read the name in this thread I think of Bernie Sanders.

[FakeGeekGirl]

I have to agree with Chuck here. Weyoun's service, dedication, and loyalty show that he's really just on the wrong side.

His list of "Villainous Virtues" on tvtropes is impressively long. He's so easy to like despite being the bad guy.

I was watching the series with my mother and right after Treachery, Faith, and the Great River she told me, "I still don't understand why you like Weyoun so much," and it was honestly the most hurtful thing she has ever said to me XD.

[bronnt]

Sanders was doing a fantastic job when she just let other people run things. The war was going very well when Dukat was the point man for military strategy while also running the Cardassian civilian side. The only thing that changed that was a literal Deus Ex Machina which destroyed a Dominion fleet and made the wormhole unusable for further reinforcement. At that point she was just spending her time chilling out with Odo and not caring about most of the progress of the war. In essence, that makes her like any chief executive who wields massive power and authority-if you can delegate properly and find competent people filling roles, you're going to succeed. The more she micromanages, the more it falls apart.

[G-Man]

Hopefully one day we'll get a show like DS9 again. A show that's not afraid to show the darker side of our natures but which doesn't seem to revel in it

What DS9 and B5 got right was that they had just the right amount of "wham" in their "wham episodes." In order for continuity to be meaningful, you have to resist the urge to "reset button" every episode, but you also need for the status quo to remain mostly intact, with continuity being minor things, and the occasional major thing - but only one or two major things per season.

When the entire status quo shakes up too much, it basically resets the entire continuity that has been built up, and makes it seem like a completely different show. Anyone who has seen <i>Defiance</i> or <i>Being Human</i> (either the UK or the US version) knows what I mean; every season finale basically destroyed about 2/3 of the things that were built up over the course of the season.

B5 and DS9 generally kept the show going so that it was recognizably the same show, even with shifts to the status quo.

[bronnt]

Ultimately, everything to do with the war story arc is extremely well done. They wrapped the story up right in that regard. I hate what they end up doing with Sisko and it shows the ultimate failing of the entire Prophets story arc. Dukat, as a character, ran out of material a season and a half earlier, but he's still hanging around. And then at the end you see Sisko having "Something I need to do myself," for no damn reason. I really, really hate the Prophets at any point after the Season 6 war arc.

[MissKittyFantastico]

One thing I am wondering, is the disease ruining Sandy's mental state, and is thus making her more irrational and prone to making bad decisions?

I always felt it was more to do with her being cut off from the Link for two years. In their 'natural' state I kind of picture the Founders as being pretty indifferent to their empire, so long nobody gets uppity and the space trains run on time - they leave the Vorta to run the shop (that's what the Vorta are for, after all) and the Jem'Hadar to put boots on necks as needed, and just float around in their ocean being really fairly chill about the whole thing. Even when they're taking an 'active' role in things - having the DS9 crew mind-probed in their guest bedroom, for instance, or popping out to infiltrate foreign governments and kick off wars here and there - it's more in the vein of pet projects than critical missions; Sandy herself displayed this in season six, where conquering the Alpha Quadrant seemed to her to be on the importance level of doing routine housekeeping, and Odo was the only thing she really cared about.

Then she got cut off, and - like Odo - she just couldn't help herself from needing to impose some order on all the idiot solids she's surrounded with, since she can't just go submerge herself in the Link and forget about them. Except where Odo started from a petri dish and had to figure out how to work within the solids' system, Sandy swanned in with the supreme belief that she's an awesome governor because the Gamma Quadrant's fine, despite that being largely down to the Vorta, who don't normally have to deal with their gods being physically around to make bad decisions they're genetically compelled to agree with.

(The only one I can't account for with this is the Martok Changeling, who was in situ for a year or so at least, and seemed to manage to keep his seething contempt for solids under wraps (unless blatantly outing himself in front of a hall full of armed Klingons was because the stress of not slapping Gowron on a daily basis had driven him to suicide). Then again, there's nothing to say that Martok was the same Changeling the whole time - since the Founders had circumvented the Empire's blood screening procedure from the very beginning, there's no reason they couldn't have regularly swapped out operatives in the role. Randon Klingon courier turns up at HQ, meets with the General, goes on his way - who's to suspect they swapped places (and all the life experience of posing as Martok) in the five minutes the office door was shut?)

that final shot of Kira comforting Jake on the upper Promenade as the shot zoomed out to show the station recede gently, its theme music playing as we left DS9 behind.

I loved that shot - it took me right back to 'Emissary', where Sisko and Jake come out of the holodeck and look through the window at the station as the ship. It really did feel like 'us' leaving DS9. I teared up.

[drewder]

Chuck mentions how the founder doesn't care that there is an invading fleet on its way they decide to spend resources killing off the Cardasians. It reminds me of how as the soviet tanks were bearing down on Germany the Nazis redoubled their efforts to slaughter Jews.

[Robovski]

Chuck mentions how the founder doesn't care that there is an invading fleet on its way they decide to spend resources killing off the Cardasians. It reminds me of how as the soviet tanks were bearing down on Germany the Nazis redoubled their efforts to slaughter Jews.

But that's the scary thing, Hitler thought he was doing right by the German people by eliminating Jews and other undesirables (please don't forget the disabled, homosexual, and just ''inferior'' like the gypsies/slavs) and so redoubled his efforts as he feared he wouldn't have time; that he would lose. Like many who do evil, Hitler thought he was doing the right thing.

[Silverias]

I actually made an account to ask these two questions.

What are the Breen references that keep getting made (About their suits and planet and whatnot)

and second...Why isn't he calling the female changeling Ada?

[Rocketboy1313]

What are the Breen references that keep getting made (About their suits and planet and whatnot)

Chuck has a fun fan theory that the Breen are actually the Valakians from the "Star Trek Enterprise" episode "Dear Doctor" (There is a review of the episode on the site.
http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/e113.php

The idea being that the Valakians were eventually cured of the genetic condition they suffered from, the genetic condition the Federation could have cured them of but didn't. However the cure requires them to wear those suits, and as such they REALLY FUCKING HATE EARTH.


As for the Changeling, I think it is because her skin looks like that of fried chicken due to the changeling disease.