Atlantis: 38 minutes.

[Yukaphile]

@clearspira On the other hand, I could cite something equally true. That women are in fact women's harshest critics, and not just in physical appearance either.

[Robovski]

It was nice having Atlantis back on for review, reminded me I haven't seen it in more than a minute so I started rewatching on Hulu (where it is currently available). I'm sure we have plenty of examples of bad leadership inside the Stargate franchise without needing to reach out to Star Wars yet again eh? Like all of Universe is just sitting there.

[Ghilz]

My favorite Atlantis leader might just be Woolsey, partly because he is flawed and isn't on board with the rest of the stars 100% of the time. In his case, they work through it and make him a better than expected leader.

Woolsey is great because he's also introduced as something of an opponent, so him leading the Atlantis expedition capstones his character development. And of course because Robert Picardo is always a treat.

They ought to have had a jumper ready to go in case the gate shut off happened, as long as the people in the rear of the jumper exhaled as best they could, then they ought to have had a couple of minutes that they could have survived in vacuum, and that could have feasibly been enough to get a jumper through, recover them into it, and get back to Atlantis for emergency treatment. That ought to have been plan B.

Problem with that plan is that this is in season 1, the Atlantis Expedition doesn't have space suits (coz they didn't expect to have space ships), and Jumpers aren't designed to connect door to door or to grab anything. So how do you get people who are unable to breathe, have no 0 g experience into the other jumper? Do you hope the 2nd jumper can thread the needle pushing the half of the first jumper.

Plus, there's the added point that there's still 2 people from the get go who are past the event horizon from the moment of the accident. If the wormhole closes, they are dead. And as the episode points out, there's not telling how the bug's going to react to stimuli vacuum. And on top of that whatever solution to get them in another jumper has to account for Shepard being disabled at the time so basically unable to be an active participant in his own rescue.

[CrypticMirror]

They ought to have had a jumper ready to go in case the gate shut off happened, as long as the people in the rear of the jumper exhaled as best they could, then they ought to have had a couple of minutes that they could have survived in vacuum, and that could have feasibly been enough to get a jumper through, recover them into it, and get back to Atlantis for emergency treatment. That ought to have been plan B.

Problem with that plan is that this is in season 1, the Atlantis Expedition doesn't have space suits (coz they didn't expect to have space ships), and Jumpers aren't designed to connect door to door or to grab anything. So how do you get people who are unable to breathe, have no 0 g experience into the other jumper? Do you hope the 2nd jumper can thread the needle pushing the half of the first jumper.

Plus, there's the added point that there's still 2 people from the get go who are past the event horizon from the moment of the accident. If the wormhole closes, they are dead. And as the episode points out, there's not telling how the bug's going to react to stimuli vacuum. And on top of that whatever solution to get them in another jumper has to account for Shepard being disabled at the time so basically unable to be an active participant in his own rescue.

They do not need spacesuits, the cabin can be isolated from the rear, that was part of the drama of this episode, they can just drop the rear ramp and reserve into the near but hopefully not yet corpses of the surviving team, raise the ramp and repressurise for the rapid transport back to Atlantis and the infirmary there.

Like I said, plan B for if all else fails. Yes it means the pilots are lost, and maybe Shepherd too, but putting a retrieval jumper on deck for immediate departure if the wormhole times out is for when regular retrieval plans fail not as a replacement for them, and the rear of the jumper stuck out there is going to be vaporised by the vortex of the new outgoing gate anyway not that that is a problem for the people who were in it because when the wormhole times out they will be blown out by the sudden depressurisation and probably clear anyway. It is about turning certain death for Rodney, Teyla, and Ford into merely probable death for them. Probable death beats certain death any day of the week though.

Weir was putting all her eggs in the "we're gonna come up with a perfect solution" basket though, and didn't seem to be putting any thought into back up plans. Plus she ran totally roughshod over Teyla and discount Qui Gon's religious and cultural beliefs. Don't get me wrong, those are indeed a load of old hippy hooey; but Weir should still not have shut them down and ignored them like that because she had this belief in the perfect solution. I mean, yeah, it was gonna work out because she had all the main characters back there, but the show ought not to be drawing attention to the character shields like that.

[FaxModem1]

The Stargate franchise is interesting, in that if you look at it from the outside, it's terrifying. There are alien overlords everywhere, and the only people protecting the common people of Earth is the US military(later the members of an international coalition). And what happens? Why the US military does a lot of scary stuff, such as get Earth nearly destroyed over a dozen times, make enemies of neutral parties, and do all of this while bypassing Congress and the general public. They make huge advantages in medicine, physics, technology, power generation, etc, and this is rarely, if ever, used for helping the civilian world, because the show is supposed to be set in our world, and they can't break that illusion unless it's an episode showing why that's bad.

For instance, imagine all the cities they could power with naquadah reactors, and how they could bring about a golden age with such advances by no longer having to deal with fossil fuels and pollution. But they can't, because then the world is no longer relate-able. McKay attends a science conference dealing with the effects of Climate Change in a later season of Atlantis, while McKay has spent the past decade of his life bringing about all this energy research from the Ancients, and it doesn't trickle down to the general public. Or how about all the medical drugs and research that the Stargate team have acquired, and is never used for the public? Or how about all the wars that could be avoided over energy when they have access to said materials? Then there's the way that the conspiracy is handled, with people getting killed or disappeared as time went on. O'Neill just kind of shrugs when that reporter is hit by a car, and Carter has no answer as to why their 'the public isn't ready' BS isn't believed by a tech CEO friend of hers. Who knows what happened to that amateur astronomer who discovered the asteroid coming to hit Earth, and whether he's maybe just in a shallow grave somewhere?

So, looking back at 38 Minutes, when it comes to the main characters, it becomes a sort of clubhouse for these characters, who come off as flabbergasted, if not enraged, that people have alternate views on what they should do. Hence why Weir's treatment of Kavanaugh doesn't sit right, because its the writers not wanting to be challenged in what they write their characters doing.

[CrypticMirror]

For instance, imagine all the cities they could power with naquadah reactors, and how they could bring about a golden age with such advances by no longer having to deal with fossil fuels and pollution. But they can't, because then the world is no longer relate-able. McKay attends a science conference dealing with the effects of Climate Change in a later season of Atlantis, while McKay has spent the past decade of his life bringing about all this energy research from the Ancients, and it doesn't trickle down to the general public. Or how about all the medical drugs and research that the Stargate team have acquired, and is never used for the public? Or how about all the wars that could be avoided over energy when they have access to said materials? Then there's the way that the conspiracy is handled, with people getting killed or disappeared as time went on. O'Neill just kind of shrugs when that reporter is hit by a car, and Carter has no answer as to why their 'the public isn't ready' BS isn't believed by a tech CEO friend of hers. Who knows what happened to that amateur astronomer who discovered the asteroid coming to hit Earth, and whether he's maybe just in a shallow grave somewhere?

Yeah, they definitely kept the masquerade up long after they had to. I can understand some secrecy in the beginning, but by the time they were launching their own spaceships and setting up multiple alpha sites, it ought to have been time to end it. The problem, as it is for many government secrets, that those at the top knew the people would be angry at being lied to for so long, and the longer it went on the angrier they were going to be, and they'd rather continue the charade rather than take the heat about coming clean. Plus secrecy had become habit rather than necessity, and the secrecy gave them all wide latitude to behave in ways that being open never would and that is its own form of power; which we all know what that leads to. Their, frankly repellent and disgraceful, behaviour to the film maker during the Heroes two-parter speaks to that.

Governments should be allowed very, very, very, few secrets.

[Wargriffin]

Weir's problem is the very similar to Janeway's, The Writers' want you to take her position seriously but They are only experienced with the age old Unquestioned Male leader role.

Its kinda like Joss whedon syndrome where ALL the characters are snarky meta leaning joke machines.

The writers think that to combat the dumb viewers Weir needs to be a hardass to the peanut gallery, which would work in the Expedition Team were lemmings, they're not and tend to be quite reasonable and brave even with imminent death... as if the whole Expedition holds the idea that one loss of life is one life too many. Hell the Rest of the team pretty much stick up for not doing the shield plan cause There would be no time to react if something Rodney does works

It be one thing if Kavanaugh was that asshole who constantly blames Weir for everything that goes wrong or whatever but Kavanaugh is in the position of being reasonable with the Groups lives over the Heroes and sadly if it concerns Shepard... The Writers MAKE NO attempt to hide that Weir's decision making is guided by her vagina and bias. Weir very clearly Values the lives of Shepards team more then other members in the expedition. Yes he's motivation may be just he is afraid but Weir doe nothing to quell those fears cause as Noted she will threaten a man with DEATH or NEVER GOING HOME AGAIN PERIOD for the crime of disrespecting her.

The only surprising thing about Weir's character is someone didn't Admiral Kane her after one to many times of her bullshit.

[Mabus]

Since the topic of "not-so great female leaders" is still warm, now I really want to hear Chuck's thoughts on Captain Alita when he reviews the Short Trek "The Trouble with Edward", since it seems that this trope of "hero-centered morality" is still alive and kicking.

[Zatman]

In terms of the episode itself, I think one thing that could have helped it, would be to not have shown any external space shots. Let the audience figure out what happened along with the characters. Chuck even points this out in TNG's "Genesis," vs "Timescape" that the latter is far more effective, because the audience is just as clueless as the main characters.

[Nealithi]

For instance, imagine all the cities they could power with naquadah reactors, and how they could bring about a golden age with such advances by no longer having to deal with fossil fuels and pollution. But they can't, because then the world is no longer relate-able. McKay attends a science conference dealing with the effects of Climate Change in a later season of Atlantis, while McKay has spent the past decade of his life bringing about all this energy research from the Ancients, and it doesn't trickle down to the general public. Or how about all the medical drugs and research that the Stargate team have acquired, and is never used for the public? Or how about all the wars that could be avoided over energy when they have access to said materials? Then there's the way that the conspiracy is handled, with people getting killed or disappeared as time went on. O'Neill just kind of shrugs when that reporter is hit by a car, and Carter has no answer as to why their 'the public isn't ready' BS isn't believed by a tech CEO friend of hers. Who knows what happened to that amateur astronomer who discovered the asteroid coming to hit Earth, and whether he's maybe just in a shallow grave somewhere?

Yeah, they definitely kept the masquerade up long after they had to. I can understand some secrecy in the beginning, but by the time they were launching their own spaceships and setting up multiple alpha sites, it ought to have been time to end it. The problem, as it is for many government secrets, that those at the top knew the people would be angry at being lied to for so long, and the longer it went on the angrier they were going to be, and they'd rather continue the charade rather than take the heat about coming clean. Plus secrecy had become habit rather than necessity, and the secrecy gave them all wide latitude to behave in ways that being open never would and that is its own form of power; which we all know what that leads to. Their, frankly repellent and disgraceful, behaviour to the film maker during the Heroes two-parter speaks to that.

Governments should be allowed very, very, very, few secrets.

Thanks for giving me another fence to perch on.
While I am not entirely happy with powerful groups within our government just doing what they will. I have to say the secrecy has several points. And I want to use the stealth fighter irl as the example. This was developed, tested, and begun construction without oversight. And thus gave a huge lead on other countries that had not been working seriously in the field. Hand it to congress and you will have it as public knowledge by lunch. Then each constituency will want their financial stake in the project. And it will become a talking point in campaigns. When it was revealed they brought in generals and kept trying to get one to say that stealth air craft are 'first strike' weapons so they could have points and scrap the project.
In short congress is the enemy of progress.

Now about releasing technology. Staff weapons were not properly understood. They kept having issues with the power source. And even when they had practical designs for naquada power sources. Naquada is not native to our star system. And is so unstable it can cause some devastating explosions in even trace amounts. I mean wasn't the orphan girl supposed to be a walking bomb that would take out Star Gate Command if she got any potassium? Medicines. It might fix the problem of the week. But how much do they know about it? I mean they found out the sarcophagi caused madness and had to stop using them as often. How many unknown side effects of what they did find were put into testing and thus had not filtered down because there were no steps leading up to them?