B5:There all honor lies

[Yukaphile]

After she withheld the truth about Anna Sheridan? Yeah, this really strikes me as contrived, to protect his pet race/character. Total transparency demands it.

[CrypticMirror]

Well, it still strikes me as contrived. I know the Grey Council was highly secretive, but you'd think after Z'ha'dum, that Sheridan would eventually find out she'd cast that deciding, genocidal vote. And for all we know he did off-screen, I don't think it would have changed anything, but I do think it could have had some kind of commentary that seems to largely be brushed aside by the series. When you go so far as to try and commit ABSOLUTE GENOCIDE, then the names of all those involved should at least be public record. No matter what arrangements the Earth imposed on the "surrendering" Minbari, assuming they imposed any at all. And early on, there's no hint to any conflicts about Earth being uneasy about the names being withheld to who started the war, a war that nearly wiped out their whole species. We focus specifically on the traumatized pilot who blames himself, and playacts as King Arthur. But Delenn, I feel, is too much of a missed opportunity with this, in that the only one to find out is Lennier, who... let's be honest, he wouldn't have thought any less of her with this revelation than Sheridan. It's a wasted opportunity, and inconsistent to her guilt that she would hide it herself, especially once the Shadows and Vorlons were driven out of the galaxy.

According to JMS,Sheriden was never told.
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/guide/075.html

"Won't Sheridan be upset when he finds out Delenn ordered the war?"

"Listen, honey, while you were out I went to the store and I bought some new candles, you know how we're always running out, and Lennier took the cat in to be cleaned, and oh, did I mention I was directly responsible for the deaths of two hundred and fifty thousand of your best friends and fellow officers? Pass the sugar."

She'll never tell him.

Because it's over...what would be the point, except to ruin what they have now.

Keep in mind this response is from back when the show was still airing, so maybe he's changed his mind in the 25 years since, but that was his take at the time while the show was white hot in his mind.

I think it is right that Delenn never told. What good would it serve except to hurt Sheridan, and, more importantly, try to make him forgive Delenn. It would be about lessening her own feelings of guilt, making her feel better about what she did, and that should never happen. She should wear that hair shirt for the rest of her life. She shouldn't tell him, because she should carry that guilt all by herself with nobody to say "I forgive you", which is what confessing to Sheridan would angling for.

[AllanO]

This has very little to do with the episode or review but I kind of liked Tron Legacy.

Otherwise I remember seeing this episode but not the plot just the bit about Londo being insulted that he was being misrepresented by the action figure.

My favourite joke from the review was when Linnear and the other guy got in the "Spiderman hand gesture" stand off. This convention for representing martial arts fighting is silly and I hope we have moved past it, but good for a laugh now and then.

[Steve]

Split off the ReBoot talk

[Beastro]

> Minbari don't lie
> The identity to the one who started the Earth-Minbari War is kept secret

Gotta love those double standards, eh? And it's not even that I hate the Minbari or Delenn. I love Delenn. ^_^ But that the truth about who fired that shot remains unknown sits uneasy with me. Especially given later events. Seems more like the Minbari are being favored in areas they should not. And in some ways, they seem like a very subdued example of Creator's Pet in terms of species for JMS. Or am I wrong?

Those contradictions are things you often find in very upright, stringent people.

Such as the Japanese love of honour and such... but then when it comes to fighting they're infamous for starting wars with sneak attacks.

[Yukaphile]

We all have our own double standards. The only question is how to balance them off others. And to be aware of them.

[cdrood]

If the show has a strength it's that every race is shown have moments of honesty and duplicity, heroism and cowardice, etc. This is at the heart of the Londo/G'Kar relationship, especially. Both have done terrible things both in the name of their people AND for their own petty personal grievances. Both have also done generous and heroic things as well.

[Beastro]

We all have our own double standards. The only question is how to balance them off others. And to be aware of them.

The Minbari were always the elder, loyal race that diligently served the Vorlons and only had the likes of the Centauri around to compare to for more than a 1000 years.

They had no awareness.

[Yukaphile]

Still strikes me as contrived and all wrong that Delenn's role is never explained, she herself hides it (you can feel the guilt all you want, if you never publicly own up to it, that's a token effort at best), all so that JMS's pet couple won't be derailed. That would have made for a more engaging story, tbh, where Sheridan finds out, and yet they still pull through. Wouldn't that tie into the more Christian elements of the show? "Forgiveness" and all that? Not only feels like a wasted opportunity, I can't see Sheridan ever stop loving her over it. It's useless to plow forward into change when history keeps repeating, unless you account for it. And it seems Delenn never does.

[Yukaphile]

Her vote and her hesitance NEARLY LED TO THE GENOCIDE OF HUMANITY. They were flat-out coming to murder THE WHOLE POPULATION. Now, they stopped, but I still disagree with JMS in that he thinks Delenn not owning up would ruin it. Chuck even tore down the logic of this in his reviews. If anything, it would enhance it. What a waste.