Star Trek Picard and Trek Taking on Modern Politics

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Enterprising
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Re: Star Trek Picard and Trek Taking on Modern Politics

Post by Enterprising »

MrL1992 wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:34 pm Given the Zhat Vash were so covert, they likely allowed some exploration of cybernetics by the Romulans, as long as it didn't go so far as to create sentient androids.

Shinzon was a political insurgent with his own agenda. He likely didn't know the Zhat Vash even existed.
Oh yeah a second secret state service that's completely secret to the first one, forgot about that! :D No the dialogue was very clear and absolute, no work done in the cybernetics or AI fields period. The rest you've made up yourself to try and explain more bad and ignorant writing.
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Re: Star Trek Picard and Trek Taking on Modern Politics

Post by Al-1701 »

There's a difference between investigating technology and developing it. The Romulans might have cybernetic experts to the point of people who can analyze cybernetic technology to determine its abilities, limitations, and any means of a countermeasure. For all we know, the cybernetic experts were Zhat Vash wanting to study Data to know the easiest and cleanest way to destroy others like him.

Also, remember, the Zhat Vash was little more than ghost stories. Men as arrogant as Jarok and Shinzon (especially the latter since he hated the Romulans) probably didn't care if the phantom Luddites weren't happy with what they're doing. Shinzon was also such a flash in the pan they might not have been able to react to what he did with B4 before he was killed.
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Re: Star Trek Picard and Trek Taking on Modern Politics

Post by MrL1992 »

Enterprising wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:42 pm
Oh yeah a second secret state service that's completely secret to the first one, forgot about that! :D No the dialogue was very clear and absolute, no work done in the cybernetics or AI fields period. The rest you've made up yourself to try and explain more bad and ignorant writing.
Well allow me go offer tbis then:

- Parts of the Romulan government tried looking into Cybernetics again that didn't last long and were shut down?
- Shinzon could have had scientists from other worlds brought in to work on B-4?

It bit 'fan-splainy'? Maybe, but its hardly the first time we've done such things. Its an over fifty-year old franchise. You don't think bit of dialogue here and there won't square together on the surface?
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BridgeConsoleMasher
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Re: Star Trek Picard and Trek Taking on Modern Politics

Post by BridgeConsoleMasher »

lol@ how they ended with B4 in Nemesis to allude to some sort of continuance of the Sunian legacy and the first episode just called him a dud.
..What mirror universe?
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Enterprising
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Re: Star Trek Picard and Trek Taking on Modern Politics

Post by Enterprising »

MrL1992 wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:46 pm Well allow me go offer tbis then:

- Parts of the Romulan government tried looking into Cybernetics again that didn't last long and were shut down?
- Shinzon could have had scientists from other worlds brought in to work on B-4?

It bit 'fan-splainy'? Maybe, but its hardly the first time we've done such things. Its an over fifty-year old franchise. You don't think bit of dialogue here and there won't square together on the surface?
Again though, that's making something up to simply plug a gap. I'm not so much having a go at anyone watching for doing that, we all as humans by our nature need things to make sense to us. Sometimes that means filling in blanks ourselves, or just outright speculating in the dark when we don't have all the facts at hand.

It's just a right pet hate of mine when that natural human habit is exploited in film/TV to compensate for bad or inadequate writing.

A straightforward example I’d give that make audiences speculate in a creative way, is the mysteries of the probe in Star Trek IV. If Paramount had their way, the probe’s call would have got subtitled, which if done would not have only changed the whole complexion of the movie, but could have outright collapsed under it. On top of “humanising” one of the rare instances when we had something truly alien in thinking and motive. The mystery and speculating of what the probe was and what it wanted with the whales, is far more interesting and better for the film than actually giving some sort of answer to that mystery.

I’m all for that kind of speculation, but not speculation to fix plotholes, or basic flaws in logic penned by folk that come across as ignorant of the Star Trek universe, and what’s been done/said before in it.
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Re: Star Trek Picard and Trek Taking on Modern Politics

Post by Al-1701 »

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:22 pm lol@ how they ended with B4 in Nemesis to allude to some sort of continuance of the Sunian legacy and the first episode just called him a dud.
They said most of the information from Data was lost. Apparently the song was one of the fragments that he was able to process. And it was a cheap get out of death free card in the hopes they would make more movies. Part of the impact of this show is the permanence of Data's death and how the twins are the only remaining piece of him.
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Re: Star Trek Picard and Trek Taking on Modern Politics

Post by Mecha82 »

Thing about Data is that he was one in kind android because of his experiences with crew of Enterprise D and E so just giving his memories and personality wouldn't had worked anyway. There is no way that B4 could have had taken Data's place. So whole ending of Nemesis was always destined to be pointless.
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BridgeConsoleMasher
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Re: Star Trek Picard and Trek Taking on Modern Politics

Post by BridgeConsoleMasher »

Mecha82 wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:47 am Thing about Data is that he was one in kind android because of his experiences with crew of Enterprise D and E so just giving his memories and personality wouldn't had worked anyway. There is no way that B4 could have had taken Data's place. So whole ending of Nemesis was always destined to be pointless.
I just imagined they'd just make Brent Spiner Oracle to Data's Batgirl so to speak.
..What mirror universe?
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Re: Star Trek Picard and Trek Taking on Modern Politics

Post by CMWaters »

Mecha82 wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:47 am Thing about Data is that he was one in kind android because of his experiences with crew of Enterprise D and E so just giving his memories and personality wouldn't had worked anyway. There is no way that B4 could have had taken Data's place. So whole ending of Nemesis was always destined to be pointless.
Had they released something continuing from Nemesis earlier they probably could have figured out a way to make it work. I know some continuation novels and such (maybe Star Trek Online too) have found ways such as Data's programming and personality overriding B4's or something like that (which sounds like another Tuvix situation but that's neither here nor there).

On a completely unrelated note: this is the first time we've seen the rank of commodore used in the 24th century.
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Re: Star Trek Picard and Trek Taking on Modern Politics

Post by Zargon »

I don't think Starfleet has changed much....but then it's hard to know what Starfleet or the Federation ever was anyway. In most Star Trek shows it is a very distant thing.

Really, Picard is just showing us the crazy obsession of one old man vs a government that does not think exactly like him.

I wonder about the whole android thing. Other then ancient races...we don't see any alien androids in Trek right? No Federation member race has androids other then humans, right? And few races even have robots or AI at all. Humm.
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