Babylon Five: Convictions

[CrypticMirror]

Shouldn't Lennier protect *them* by killing Londo (or at least allowing him to die)?
and even Lennier is thinking that Londo would be better off dead.

A bomb exploded, Lennier acted instinctively without thinking about the consequences of his actions.

Which would also happen later with rather negative repercussions.

But also eventually positive. The Shadows, without Londo, would simply move onto another easily manipulated ambitious schmuck; like Refa. With Londo they have someone with enough smarts and just enough conscience to pull himself out of their trap and work against them. Killing Londo would have saved some lives, but they would just be different lives. People would still die, more people probably, just a different mix of people, but there wouldn't be the person who stood up and recognised they were wrong then worked to stop the killing. Lennier saved more lives than he condemned when he saved Londo.

[Ghilz]

Always found it weird that Lennier straight up lies to get rid of this annoying guy about how he's got 7 days to live. Especially when the show makes a big case about when Minbari CAN lie.

Suppose one could argue the humans are rubbing off on him.

[Madner Kami]

Always found it weird that Lennier straight up lies to get rid of this annoying guy about how he's got 7 days to live. Especially when the show makes a big case about when Minbari CAN lie.

Suppose one could argue the humans are rubbing off on him.

They are allowed to lie, if they can save someone's face with their lie. In this case, he saves the face of the annoying twat by lying.

[cdrood]

Interesting to note: G'Kar tried, through inaction, to allow Londo to come to harm.

Lennier couldn't do that. He reacted on instinct and tried to save Londo. And he's kind of sorry he did, because he knows that the subject of his deliverance is going to cause immeasurable suffering and death. Shouldn't Lennier protect *them* by killing Londo (or at least allowing him to die)?

Everybody's thinking about how to "Three Laws" Londo right now. G'Kar, we can all understand him wanting it, but Lennier is Londo's last, best friend on the station, and even Lennier is thinking that Londo would be better off dead.

I don't know if it was the intent at the time, but I couldn't help but draw a parallel to when Lennier would be on the OTHER side of such a door and chose very differently for selfish reasons.

[cdrood]

Shouldn't Lennier protect *them* by killing Londo (or at least allowing him to die)?
and even Lennier is thinking that Londo would be better off dead.

A bomb exploded, Lennier acted instinctively without thinking about the consequences of his actions.

Which would also happen later with rather negative repercussions.

But also eventually positive. The Shadows, without Londo, would simply move onto another easily manipulated ambitious schmuck; like Refa. With Londo they have someone with enough smarts and just enough conscience to pull himself out of their trap and work against them. Killing Londo would have saved some lives, but they would just be different lives. People would still die, more people probably, just a different mix of people, but there wouldn't be the person who stood up and recognised they were wrong then worked to stop the killing. Lennier saved more lives than he condemned when he saved Londo.

Which is exactly why Londo and G'Kar make such a great pair. As Londo pointed out a bit later, they're both patriots. They have far more in common than they are different. Each wants what they believe is in their people's best interest, but also have a selfish streak and desire for personal power and glory. G'Kar's gets downplayed after the first season, while Londo's is dialed up. Both really do care about the greater good, but don't always see it clearly.

[Eishtmo]

In some way, I think this was G'Kar and Londo reconnecting, as it were. In season 1 they were bickering like old women. Posturing, insulting, and just playing up the role their people designated for them.

Then the Shadows came and pushed this from silly dead end job, to deadly serious. The animosity they expressed at each other became actual hatred, they bitterly hated the other, and the fun, as it were, between them was gone.

Then Narn gets bombed back to the stone age. Londo did NOT enjoy that, and there's quite a bit of guilt he felt for it. Yeah, he still played his role, but the look on his face when he first encounters G'Kar in this episode is less "oh shit, he's going to kill me" and more "I can't face him for what I've done."

By the end, they were name calling and bickering again. I think this was them getting back to their roots. It would be a bit, but eventually they would start working together, and it would establish a strange, but valid friendship between the two.

One where they killed each other, but hey, what are friends for?

[Deledrius]

When I first watched this episode, the bomber always felt really 1990s to me, in that he's just a lone nut, instead of someone with a religious or political cause and/or part of a bigger group. Course, that sort of thing is becoming bigger again with all the shooting sprees in recent years.

Yes and no. A majority of the shooters making the news in recent years aren't working alone, even though they aren't members of any official group. A lot of what we're seeing is essentially an internet-facilitated neo-terrorist-cell structure where a large, loose group of people without any direct affiliation or allegiance slowly radicalize each other until another one gets far enough to break and perform one of these attacks. Very different from the lone nuts of the 1990s, as while the perpetrators may act alone in the specific event, the path getting there is very much not solitary these days; the group pressure is seemingly a large component.

[Kinky Vorlon]

Shouldn't Lennier protect *them* by killing Londo (or at least allowing him to die)?
and even Lennier is thinking that Londo would be better off dead.

A bomb exploded, Lennier acted instinctively without thinking about the consequences of his actions.

Which would also happen later with rather negative repercussions.

But also eventually positive. The Shadows, without Londo, would simply move onto another easily manipulated ambitious schmuck; like Refa. With Londo they have someone with enough smarts and just enough conscience to pull himself out of their trap and work against them. Killing Londo would have saved some lives, but they would just be different lives. People would still die, more people probably, just a different mix of people, but there wouldn't be the person who stood up and recognised they were wrong then worked to stop the killing. Lennier saved more lives than he condemned when he saved Londo.

I was actually referring to something he does (not) do in Season 5.

[excalibur]

A weird thing I noticed from this episode and at least a couple other movies is a term Nostalgia Critic coin "cyber monks". An obvious religious order of monks who are also very tech savy and they seemed to pop up randomly in 90s media

[Scififan]

Shouldn't Lennier protect *them* by killing Londo (or at least allowing him to die)?
and even Lennier is thinking that Londo would be better off dead.

A bomb exploded, Lennier acted instinctively without thinking about the consequences of his actions.

Which would also happen later with rather negative repercussions.

There is one factor that didn't get consideration. Vir Cotto. His influence on Londo did allow him to direct some of the decisions that were made. If Londo had died then someone else like Refa would have done worse because he would not have had any restraint.

But also eventually positive. The Shadows, without Londo, would simply move onto another easily manipulated ambitious schmuck; like Refa. With Londo they have someone with enough smarts and just enough conscience to pull himself out of their trap and work against them. Killing Londo would have saved some lives, but they would just be different lives. People would still die, more people probably, just a different mix of people, but there wouldn't be the person who stood up and recognised they were wrong then worked to stop the killing. Lennier saved more lives than he condemned when he saved Londo.