The Rise of Skywalker (Spoilers: Read at Your Own Risk)

[MrL1992]

Doesnt explain why Rian Johnson was allowed to rip up JJ Abrams outline either.

Did he though? That's what I'm not convinced about.

[Deledrius]

Doesnt explain why Rian Johnson was allowed to rip up JJ Abrams outline either.

That answer is beyond obvious. There wasn't one.

It seems pretty obvious. But how do you set out to make a trilogy without any plan at all? I'm guessing that, assuming no actual complete incompetence, the development of this series died a death by a thousand committee papercuts. No single person or decision set out to undermine the cohesion, but a long series of contributions all canceled out everything but the actual making of three films. I look forward to the postmortem in a decade or two when the truth comes out; it's sure to be a fascinating and sad tale.

What's happened to the Star Wars franchise is a prime example of why you should never, EVER, sell your IP to the Mouse Mafia; they can't be trusted not to turn it into a landfill fire.

Alright.

[thetrueelec]

People say that having no plan is why RoS sucked, I say it sucked because the people making it made a bad movie. Even if they had planned it out it doesn't mean it wouldn't have sucked, Game of Thrones anyone?

[McAvoy]

Doesnt explain why Rian Johnson was allowed to rip up JJ Abrams outline either.

Did he though? That's what I'm not convinced about.

Maybe. Maybe not. I am not that well versed in the background info of the Sequels that I can say yes he did.

Or maybe he had suggestions.

I do know that Rian Johnson had free reign to create whatever he wanted and reportedly ignored script advice.

[MrL1992]

Maybe. Maybe not. I am not that well versed in the background info of the Sequels that I can say yes he did.

Or maybe he had suggestions.

I do know that Rian Johnson had free reign to create whatever he wanted and reportedly ignored script advice.

Abrams seems to indicate in prior interviews that key developments like Rey's parents were the intent. However, he also said Episode IX wasn't going to retcon anything so goodness knows what he actually means.

[ChrisTheLovableJerk]

Doesnt explain why Rian Johnson was allowed to rip up JJ Abrams outline either.

Did he though? That's what I'm not convinced about.

I am 80-90% certain that Rey was originally planned to be Luke's daughter. If you take this idea into account, a lot of oddities in TFA start to add up.

Consider the following things about TFA: Daisy Ridley bears a vague resemblance to Natalie Portman. The Skywalker Lightsaber calls to her for no discernible reason. Han acts strangely around Rey, almost like he knows who she is. Leia inexplicably hugs Rey despite the fact that she supposedly never met her before. Rey somehow knows how to pilot and fix the Falcon and is instantly talented with the Force for no given reason. Kylo Ren's is randomly interested when Mitaka mentions a girl helped Finn and BB-8 escaped, he strangely takes off his helmet to make her feel comfortable around him and he was originally supposed to say 'It IS you!' after she force-pulled the lightsaber, a line that was cut so late in the game it was kept in the Lego video game. Luke's narration in the trailer seems to be to a family member, his daughter? We also know that TFA originally ended with Luke levitating while meditating, lifting rocks around him before he noticed Rey...and unverified rumors have also indicated he originally looked at Rey and said 'My baby girl...'

The ending of TFA was changed at Rian Johnson's insistence, so who's to say what else they changed for the twerp? It is incredibly likely that he ruined the story of the sequel trilogy for no reason other than his own ego and to do a pretentious, borderline nihilistic deconstruction.

[thetrueelec]

Yes him not making Rey a Skywalker, an incredibly stupid idea, and instead making a point about how anyone can be a hero was just awful

[Winter]

Yes him not making Rey a Skywalker, an incredibly stupid idea, and instead making a point about how anyone can be a hero was just awful

That's not really the issue here, I'm okay with Rey being a nobody and not having any sort of connection and the idea that anyone can be hero is a good message. The thing of it is, there was an easy way for the films to have it's cake and eat it too, just have it were Rey was a student at Luke's school.

During the scene where Kylo is about to interrogate Rey when Rey demands to see Kylo's face after his removal of said mask Rey says "Hello Ben". And after that it's revealed that Rey was a Jedi student at Luke's school who ran away when Ben fell to the Dark Side and started killing everyone.

Boom. Fans who want to know how Rey is able to use the Force without training get an answer and fans who want Rey to be a nobody who isn't special because of her relations still get it. She DID have training because she learned how to use the Force when she was at Luke's school.

But here's the real problem, the films spent to much time dragging out Rey's backstory which was not helped by the fact that NO ONE had an answer for said backstory.

Contrast this with Mara Jade. By the end of Heir of the Empire, the first chapter of The Thrawn Trilogy, we learn EVERYTHING there is to know about Mara's backstory. She's a former assassin who was trained how to use the Force by the Emperor, was basically adopted by the Emperor but once he died she had to go on the run and blames Luke because she believes that he killed the Emperor.

Rey, we learn NOTHING about her past until half way through Rise of Skywalker, the END of the Disney Sequel Trilogy and even then it doesn't answer ANY questions that we had the most important one being how Rey is able to use the Force with no Training? Not only that it RAISE a bunch more questions that are never answered or resolved.

How did Luke and Leia know Rey was a Palpatine, did Han know she was a Palpatine? Who is her grandmother? Why would ANYONE want to enter into a relationship with Palpatine in the first place? For that matter, if Palpatine had a kid, why did he keep Vader around, wouldn't he have just killed him once his son was old enough so he would have a more effective Apprentice instead of someone who needed a life support suit to live? Why did Snoke want Rey did if he was just a puppet that was under Palpatine's control? Why did Palpatine tell Kylo to kill Rey instead of just bringing her to him if his plan was just to posses her? HOW DID HE SURVIVE GETTING BLOWING UP, IMPLODING AND THEN SURVIVING A SPACE STATION BLOWING UP?!?!

The reason TTT is the better Sequel Trilogy is that it AVOIDED ALL the issues TDST feel into. It told a more original story. It build on the foundation left behind by the Original Trilogy. The main character, Mara, had a fully fleshed out arc that helped flesh out and develop her character.

TDST is what many feared TTT was going to be, a lazy retread of the Original Trilogy that came off like bad fanfiction.

[MrL1992]

I am 80-90% certain that Rey was originally planned to be Luke's daughter. If you take this idea into account, a lot of oddities in TFA start to add up.

God, i hated that idea, ever since people started speculating on it after Episode VII released.

It would have been an awful example of shrinking the universe. Our Vilnian is already the son of two of the previous trilogy's protagonists, (which was an interesting way to take things IMO) which was enough for me.


The second and more irksome point of contention for me though is Luke going off and having a relationship off-screen when romance wasn't exactly shown to be a high priority for his character. The only inclination he showed was towards his own sister which they naturally dropped after that relationship was decided upon.

So, yeah, boring and a hard sell.

If it was Abrahams' original plan, he should have cemented it far more firmly in TFA or dug his heels in as a producer of TLJ if he was that married to the idea.

When TLJ revealed her origin, i sighed in relief.
When TROS retconned it, I just siiiiiiiighed...

[ChrisTheLovableJerk]

Yes him not making Rey a Skywalker, an incredibly stupid idea, and instead making a point about how anyone can be a hero was just awful

So, Leia flying through space, Luke becoming a whiny nihilistic coward who sucks on a disgusing blob's crotch boobs and killing off the new main villain without any explanation as to who he is or where he came from when the universe didn't really allow for something like him is okay, but a main character being related to someone is bad? That's just idiotic. Since when was it stated only Skywalkers could be heroes? Fucking nowhere. Rian Johnson, in his infinite idiocy, just thought that was a brilliant idea, not taking into account literally every other heroic character in the franchise. What a putz.