Andromeda: Under the Night/An Affirming Flame

[Ghilz]

Yeah, Rhade even noted to Dylan that he was trying to warn him.

they manage to even make that scene weird due to a combination of time travel and alternate history, this show doesn't so much as bend the laws of space time and matter, it puts them in a shredder and then burns it

I forgot the episode where we learn that Rhade actually won the duel with Dylan, is the one who made it in the future, recruited the Maru, but became such a fuck up that basically galactic annihilation almost happened until Trance convinces him to go back in time to his betrayal, which is the version WE know, where Rhade loses the duel (on purpose) because he knew Dylan would be better at saving the universe.

I dont remember if the episode ever explains why going back in time, Warning Dylan of the ambush, and not losing the commonwealth was not an option.

[Veggietrekker]

Reading this forum I feel like the odd-man out. I do like this show and I don’t mind the direction changes all that much. Yes, there were big changes after season 2. But these changes were only changes, not betrayals of the show or characters.

SEASON 1: Hunt wants and needs to reestablish the only life he ever really knew. This causes frequent conflict with his crew who frankly see him as an idiot. This changes gradually over time.

SEASON 2: We are frequently seeing that Dylan is making progress towards the establishment of the new Commonwealth. More that Trance is very clearly seeing something in Dylan and the crew from where they started. Despite this they are still in peril and have essentially made themselves targets. Season ends with the new commonwealth being formed.

SEASON 3: Not the best season I’ll admit. Some of the best and utterly worst episodes are both here in this season. The first half of the season drags while the second half starts to move. Character changes with Tyr and Beka after their traumatic events. Dealing with people in the Commonwealth and seeing Dylan’s dream shatter. With so many troops there were logically crew members now on board, which is mentioned in the background and in the foreground some episodes. My favorite episode of “Point of the Spear” really showed off what the show was capable of. The season ended quite strongly with Tyr leaving and tying up some plot threads.

SEASON 4: People will either love or hate this season. I think it was rather strong as the new Commonwealth had fallen and history had repeated itself. Tyr is gone and a new though familiar crew member to take his place. The Commonwealth is pretty much dead and Dylan is scrambling for a way to combat the Magog. I have mixed feelings about Dylan being declared a ‘Paradine’ but with how Trance had been acting the entire show I’m okay with it.

SEASON 5: For those who do not know this was a season made due to massive budget cuts and the crew/cast voluntarily taking a pay cut to keep it going. The production studio was going out of business and that limited the story board options and caused early cancellation. Yes, it feels like this season is more character and mythology oriented than the rest. Not having Rommi because the actress was pregnant was hard. The way the show ended was very clearly meant for another 1 or 2 seasons as it was rushed to completion.

I only say all of this because I do like Andromeda for what it was. Plenty of worse, more boring shows have gone on forever. Could it be better? Yes of course. Should it be remade one day with a more singular vision? I’d watch it if so.

[Aotrs Commander]

The show is really solid until the midway point of season 2,

Yeah,. that's what I've alwasy thought. I LOVED season one - it was full of starship battles! And then about half-way through season two it started to taper off (in my opinion) ans then nose-dived in season five.

I do have the series on DVD, but I think by the end more for completeion, I don't think I've watched much beyond that first bit, to be honest.

Anyway, I liked it at first, but then the time distortion episode happened. I actually quite like that episode, but I hate the introduction of gold Trance. While I still liked her character ok, I liked it a lot less than purple Trance.

Agreed.

Given what I vaguely recall being said in an interview or something in a magzine or something at the time, I now wonder whether that wasn't entirely Kevin Sorbo's preference as much as it was supposedly make-up issues or something.

They revived the Commonwealth too quickly and easily and then didn't really take advantage of it.

And then they just as quickly destroyed it, nearly offscreen in the most boringly cliche lazy character death = stakes fashion.

Tir got... weird. I never liked him much, not my kind of character, but I really hated him when he went all cult.

Yeah, it undid all the character development they had. Getting rid of him in the end was for the best, really.

I hated how much control Sorbo got. I know now how terrible a person he is but I liked his character less and less as the show went on and Dylan was made into this literal god.

I was completely unware of all the stuff going on behind the scenes at the time, so it wasn't until mcuh later I learned any of this.

I mean, I did - and still do, actually - snicker at the "Greek god or something," line, because shows referencing each other was still novel in the 90s, but... They took it too far.

And season 5 is just bad.

Yes, definitely. I mean, I watched it to the end still, and there were a few good moments (when finally Doyle and Rommie got a team-up), but yeah.

I mean, heresy, I still prefer it (to the extent I might watch it again some day) over nuBSG (which I couldn't even get started on - despite a couple of tries) and Firefly (contraversial! [1])



[1]Only made it to the end of the pilot. I *hated* the starships - that's the big death knell as far as I go - hated the "we're going to have no sound in space because we're being 'realistic' in this one explict instance" and Westerns do absolutely nothing for me. Which just goes to show even Joss Whedon (who I normally rather like) cannot hold my interest if the trappings are wrong.)

[Deledrius]

But these changes were only changes, not betrayals of the show or characters.

The thing that stands out to me as emblematic all these years later is that the very episode in which Sorbo takes over, his character immediately changes. Just previously the show was explicitly dealing with the fallout of him still being dedicated to his wife despite the rather unusual circumstances that separate them. However, the moment Sorbo is made producer, Hunt is thrust into a Romantic Plot Of the Week episode which negates and ignores that development and opens the character up to "makin' out with the ladies on the regular".

To me, this sudden collapse of the show's main plot by way of how it was reflecting in the main characters' lives and their consistent characterization signaled it was time to check out as an audience. Everything I know about the subsequent failures in the show supports this perception.

[SuccubusYuri]

Anyway, I liked it at first, but then the time distortion episode happened. I actually quite like that episode, but I hate the introduction of gold Trance. While I still liked her character ok, I liked it a lot less than purple Trance.

Agreed.

Given what I vaguely recall being said in an interview or something in a magzine or something at the time, I now wonder whether that wasn't entirely Kevin Sorbo's preference as much as it was supposedly make-up issues or something.

That's a suits thing. As part of Wolfe leaving the series they wanted to either make Trance sexier, or they were going to kill off a character (probably Trance). They let Wolfe pick if he wanted, so, he chose to spare his baby as Trance and Harper were his favorites, and they were the ones on the chopping block.

Poor girl got Harry Kim'd. Only there was no people's magazine to save her design xD

What makes you weep with how exciting it would have been is that, "Dance of the Mayflies" should have episode 12, where "Ouroboros" currently sits. Which is the episode with the parasites who control dead bodies. The whole "Trance isn't really dead or alive" thing has been in the series since day 1, but I think the reveal when Rommie tries to restrain her under the mind control, and then Trance starts kicking the shit out of her, considering Rommie is the resident Hulk-Smash, would have made that episode way more interesting. But after squeezing in "Ouroboros" and she's already a cyberpunk ninja it's a lot less of an impact.

(apparently it wasn't supposed to be rip-off zombie action schlock either, but that's all in speculation how that would have played out.)

[SuccubusYuri]

Reading this forum I feel like the odd-man out. I do like this show and I don’t mind the direction changes all that much. Yes, there were big changes after season 2. But these changes were only changes, not betrayals of the show or characters.

I'd have to argue that's not true. Dylan 2.0 literally runs into a "chosen one" storyline before the end of Season 4, and most of the episodes in seasons 3 and 4 can feel like the worst Moffat-isms when we have to hear speech after speech about how great Dylan is without actually showing us that.

Of course it's also important to remember Wolfe's TEAM was still on the series and only trickled out one by one, and they are responsible for the best episodes of Season 3 ("Cui Bono", "Unconquerable Man", "The Lone and Level Sands").

And out of loyalty or spite they tried to keep some elements of Wolfe's grand design in the series though that probably just made it more of a mess. This would be things like, including Tyr's kid, who was supposed to be Drago reincarnated and use him to unite the prides again, but then Engels took that idea and went off the fucking rails to do it in the stupidest way possible xD

I'd also say transitioning from an ensemble show to one about Dylan exclusively is kind of a betrayal. I mean what if DS9 had jettisoned its ensemble in Season 3? No more Odo episodes, no Ferengi episodes (okay maybe a bad example), no Worf episodes even if he joins, all it is is about how great Ben Sisko, and only Ben Sisko is. You'd never find out Bashir is engineered, no more "torture the chief". I'd consider that a betrayal of the series ideals, considering they managed to endure a number of those thematic changes without not-feeling like DS9.

[Aotrs Commander]

Anyway, I liked it at first, but then the time distortion episode happened. I actually quite like that episode, but I hate the introduction of gold Trance. While I still liked her character ok, I liked it a lot less than purple Trance.

Agreed.

Given what I vaguely recall being said in an interview or something in a magzine or something at the time, I now wonder whether that wasn't entirely Kevin Sorbo's preference as much as it was supposedly make-up issues or something.

That's a suits thing. As part of Wolfe leaving the series they wanted to either make Trance sexier, or they were going to kill off a character (probably Trance). They let Wolfe pick if he wanted, so, he chose to spare his baby as Trance and Harper were his favorites, and they were the ones on the chopping block.

Ah, so she was, in the end, basically modified because someone wanted her to be somebody's wank-fodder, to put it most crudely (but one suspects, in truth, accurately); it's just a toss-up whether it was what the suits themselves wanted or what they assumed the lowest common denominator wanted. (I'm inclined - especially in light of stuff from recent years about how stuff seemed to be run - to believe the former, to be perfectly honest; though one perhaps also feels that, if Sorbo had been taking over, if he had actually wanted to, he could have fought for it to remain, so it seems likely he's at least complicit.)

[EatThePath]

Andromeda stirs such a melancholic soup of emotions for me. There are so, so many elements of the early seasons that I loved very deeply, and that I watched the show slowly abandon or squander as it ground on. The ship designs and battles, the characters, the music, the worldbuilding. None of it was perfect, but all of it had sparks of brilliance and uniqueness. It was one of the first instances of media I liked declining over time that I remember being really conscious of. Just hearing the intro music in these reviews tears me up a bit, and it's hard for me to go back and enjoy the good parts knowing that the damage done to the series can never be undone.

If you want a taste of where it could have gone, Robert Hewitt Wolfe released a one act play titled Coda that gives insight into his original plans. I find it a fascinating read, though not one that reduces my melancholy over what could have been. Since I registered to make this post I suspect directly linking it will get this post caught in a filter, but searching his name and the title should turn it up easy enough.

[Thebestoftherest]

Hey, I never seen this show can someone explain to me what is wrong with season 5?

[EatThePath]

can someone explain to me what is wrong with season 5?

Oh boy lets see what I can dredge from memory.

The show shifted focus from romping all over the galaxies to focusing on one confined mysterious hellhole system. The mystery, when revealed, had a few neat bits but was overall dumb and squandered a lot of different setting elements at once. I could elaborate if you'd like, but it'd be a long digression.

The season started with a timeskip that scattered the crew and screwed with them in general. This meant they had to take some time gathering everyone back together and they were sort of changed by the experiences in between. This was a waste of time at best and damaging to the characters and chemistry at worst, in my opinion.

In a lot of ways this setting shift was a retread of the early show in miniature. Dylan cast into a world ruled by petty despots, having to band a crew and ultimately the system together. That could have been an interesting exercise I suppose, but only if very well executed. In practice it felt very disjointed from everything that came before.

Lexa Doig, who played the ship's AI, was pregnant through most of the season. Besides whatever impact that might have had on her ability to be on set, justifying a pregnant hologram or gynoid was not a hill the writers were willing to climb. Probably for the best. So she was written out temporarily. But apparently there was a quota for hot gynoids, so Harper built another one between seasons. I didn't like her much.

The season was jam packed with revelations/retcons about the background or nature of characters and setting elements. I can't think of a single one that wasn't cliched, unwelcome, just pain bad, or in most cases all three.

Quite possibly fueled by everything else, but subjectively the episodes all felt uncomfortable and grimey to me. Just unpleasant to watch in ineffable ways.

And finally the series finale was just as nonsensical as everything leading up to it, and very rushed. It staggered from one inanity to another at breakneck pace. I honestly only remember a few specific moments of it, for some reason I've not gone back to watch season 5 since it aired, but all the moments I do are memorable for all the wrong reasons. The last scene of the finale reinforced what was at the heart of the rest of the season: Dylan is the important one. Nobody else needs to be there. It's all about him.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.