Recent Political Violence in America

[Antiboyscout]

That cop lost his job. And that headlock occurred during an arrest. This wasn't some random act of racism, and that wasn't an innocent man. Being overzealous in restraining someone is not a reason to go to jail for murder.

What next you going to talk about "hands up don't shoot" that hoax perpetuated by BLM for propaganda purposes?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

....he lost his JOB? Most people who murder somebody end up in PRISON.

He wasn't "an innocent man", yes, he was guilty of the crime of selling loose untaxed cigarettes. So what? Last time I checked, the Death Penalty is not the punishment on the books for selling loosies. There are plenty of ways to restrain somebody without wrapping your hands around their neck. There isn't even a NEED to restrain a suspect who is unarmed, not threatening violence, and guilty of, again, selling loosies.

But you casting "hand's up don't shoot" as some kind of hoax already suggests that our perceptions of reality are beyond reconciliation, and any discourse between us is unlikely to be productive.

[Antiboyscout]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/10/us/fergus ... index.html

Here's an article where CNN desperately tries to spin the fact the forensics doesn't indicated that he had his hands up.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Okay then. The forensic evidence is less clear-cut than I thought and I was wrong. I learned something new today.
What is your response to my preceding paragraph?

[Antiboyscout]

selling cigarettes? No. Resisting arrest? That is a crime worthy restraining someone physically. Yes a headlock is not required, in fact, it is not even in police training. This turned into a shit show because one guy ignored training. As for murder, at a push you could argue manslaughter, gross negligence seems more likely. There is no intent.

What kinda argument is not restraining an unarmed suspect. How do you arrest someone if you can't restrain them. What happens if, like this guy, they decide to not cooperate? Just let them go?

[Darth Wedgius]

Alright. There are many different lessons of history.

I still maintain the problem is that police forces have a recurring pattern of doing fuckall to confront white supremecists, and sometimes actively aiding them.

I saw in Berkely what you saw in Charlottesville. I also saw people on my political side saying, in effect, the police can't protect us so we need to protect ourselves, whatever the cost.

Black Lives Matter is LITERALLY a movement built upon a group of people who can be murdered with impunity, whom the police are still regularly murdering with zero consequences.

[Bovine manure]. "Hands up don't shoot" was a myth, and one you should have examined more closely before going anywhere near "we have to be violent." Castile had a gun and the (probably trigger-happy, but clearly scared out of his wits) cop who shot him went on trial. He was found not guilty, but he's (thankfully) out of a job. Eric Garner's killing was clearly accidental, and was incurred during resisting arrest. That said, the cops who arrested him shouldn't cop any more, because, jury decision or not, they were negligent as hell.

Black Lives Matter as violent and dangerous, then there's very little chance I can have meaningful discourse with you.

"Pigs in a blanket! Fry 'em like bacon!" Were they heading to an IHOP? OK, that's not violence. That's a call for violence. I would call that dangerous. Someone tied to BLM was violence with a gun and some police officers, which I think qualifies as violence. But he wasn't an official BLM member, right? And the BLM disavowed connection to him. Kind of like how white nationalists disavowed James Fields Jr.

But you're right. We're very unlikely to have meaningful discourse. The thread was a (purely academic) search for answers, but the more left-leaning members have been advocating political violence fairly consistently.

I think I have my answer, sir. I'm most grateful to you for opening my eyes to the world as it is. The thread has done its job.

[Admiral X]

It's appalling that people are actively supporting terrorism on this board. Almost as appalling as the fact people are still fighting a war that ended more than a century ago.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

selling cigarettes? No. Resisting arrest? That is a crime worthy restraining someone physically. Yes a headlock is not required, in fact, it is not even in police training. This turned into a shit show because one guy ignored training. As for murder, at a push you could argue manslaughter, gross negligence seems more likely. There is no intent.

What kinda argument is not restraining an unarmed suspect. How do you arrest someone if you can't restrain them. What happens if, like this guy, they decide to not cooperate? Just let them go?

Police should be held to a higher moral standard, not a lower one. You're going out of your way to excuse a murderer.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Alright. There are many different lessons of history.

I still maintain the problem is that police forces have a recurring pattern of doing fuckall to confront white supremecists, and sometimes actively aiding them.

I saw in Berkely what you saw in Charlottesville. I also saw people on my political side saying, in effect, the police can't protect us so we need to protect ourselves, whatever the cost.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what Berkely event are you referring to, and who are the people on your side you specify?

Black Lives Matter is LITERALLY a movement built upon a group of people who can be murdered with impunity, whom the police are still regularly murdering with zero consequences.

[Bovine manure]. "Hands up don't shoot" was a myth, and one you should have examined more closely before going anywhere near "we have to be violent." Castile had a gun and the (probably trigger-happy, but clearly scared out of his wits) cop who shot him went on trial. He was found not guilty, but he's (thankfully) out of a job. Eric Garner's killing was clearly accidental, and was incurred during resisting arrest. That said, the cops who arrested him shouldn't cop any more, because, jury decision or not, they were negligent as hell.[/quote]
Clearly accidental? Where the flip do you get that? When somebody gasps out "I can't breath" you loosen up your grip on their neck.
"But clearly scared out of his wits." So? That's supposed to make things better? If you panic when you see an unarmed black man, you should have never been given a badge and a gun in the first place.

Black Lives Matter as violent and dangerous, then there's very little chance I can have meaningful discourse with you.

"Pigs in a blanket! Fry 'em like bacon!" Were they heading to an IHOP? OK, that's not violence. That's a call for violence. I would call that dangerous. Someone tied to BLM was violence with a gun and some police officers, which I think qualifies as violence. But he wasn't an official BLM member, right? And the BLM disavowed connection to him. Kind of like how white nationalists disavowed James Fields Jr.

But you're right. We're very unlikely to have meaningful discourse. The thread was a (purely academic) search for answers, but the more left-leaning members have been advocating political violence fairly consistently.

I think I have my answer, sir. I'm most grateful to you for opening my eyes to the world as it is. The thread has done its job.[/quote]

...white nationalists disavowed...who gives a flip? They want to MURDER EVERY NON-WHITE PERSON IN THE COUNTRY. What they disavow is pretty meaningless when their explicit agenda involves genocide.

Ugh.

I really think you are right. Y'all will go out of your way to justify homocidal cops and to condemn people who fight back against actual, dyed-in-the-wool neo nazis, because NO MATTER the circumstances, no matter the agenda, anyone who stops singing kumbiyah and puts down their votive candle to fight white supremacists is just as bad.

I'm sickened and I am terrified for this nation.

Go to the crows.

[Arkle]

Fuzzy: What Antiboyscout neglects to mention (I wouldn't have seen it if you hadn't quoted him, I have that jerk blocked) is that the chokehold the officer who murdered him used has been banned by the NYPD for years. In fact, that chokehold was a major plot point in the film Do The Right Thing. After said chokehold was applied illegally, protocol was also broken by the cops "failing" (more like refusing) to administer first aid.

Meanwhile, the man who took the video showing the murder has basically had his life ruined by the NYPD since then. Not the cop who killed Garner, but the guy who taped it. There's this documentary about him (Ramsey Orta) and other people who frankly put themselves in harm's way (so, heroes IMO) to make sure the NYPD actually lives up tot that motto they stamp on their cars. It's called Cop Watchers. I highly recommend it.