Coronavirus - the new pandemic

[Darth Wedgius]

Another straw man argument from Mecha82. Never did I say that people who don't agree with him aren't sane. I disagree with him on anthropogenic global warming.

Mecha, did you find one of those straw men arguments you say I do?

[Darth Wedgius]

Largest Statistically Significant Study by 6,200 Multi-Country Physicians on COVID-19 Uncovers Treatment Patterns and Puts Pandemic in Context

Some potentially useful data:

https://www.sermo.com/press-releases/largest-statistically-significant-study-by-6200-multi-country-physicians-on-covid-19-uncovers-treatment-patterns-and-puts-pandemic-in-context/

Includes, but is not exclusive to, the international use of hydroxychloroquine. One little bit of data:

In the U.S., 63% of physicians recommend restrictions be lifted six or more weeks from now and 66% believe the peak is at least 3-4 weeks away.

(emphasis added)

That's not a contradiction -- you wouldn't necessarily lift restrictions right after the peak.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Relief Fund set up to help farm workers and their families amid Covid19
https://abc7news.com/farmer-pandemic-relief-fund-justice-for-migrant-women-organization/6067771/

I mean, these are the people actually keeping us alive, and this kind of cost SHOULD be covered by the agrobusiness employers who rake in fat government subsidies and polish chairs with their ass all day, but things are not as they should be, so putting it out here so people can help.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Also, first confirmed COVID death at Riker's Island. It was somebody awaiting hearing for a parole violation.
https://thecity.nyc/2020/04/first-rikers-covid-death-was-jailed-on-technicality.html

With the lack of adequate hygene and cramped quarters, this thing is gonna spread through that prison like shit through a goose.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Clearly you who supports his dear leader to point of bending backwards to defend that piece of shit is right person to claim that those that don't agree with him don't live in real world and aren't sane. I am not surprised at all by your arrogant holier-than-thou attitude. Then again it was my fault of not ignoring you instead of wasting my time with you. I won't make that mistake again.

Yeah, trying to argue with him is a trap.

Any source you provide is not good enough. Any flaws you point out with his reasoning is a straw man. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then the onus is on YOU to provide a series of links to articles he won't read explaining why it's a duck.
What really gets me to give up, though, is the gods-damned laughing emoji. He can't resist finishing off a post with that above-it-all tone to indicate that he's not taking it seriously and you're just too stupid to get the joke.

[Rocketboy1313]

As of yesterday the Corona Virus has now killed more Americans than died in 9/11 and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Essentially this just brought to an end the age of terrorism as the core topic of American policy.
You can see people struggling to fit it into that paradigm with the conspiracy theories about bio weapons.
But the truth is we are going to see a pathetic scramble to try and make the for profit American Health Care system fit into the new world this virus helps to illuminate.
For profit systems based entirely around having no backups, no flex space, no slack, and under staffing cannot deal with this sort of widespread nightmare.

I am certain we are going to see all the wrong kinds of policy come out of this just like with 9/11, where they will be buying hazmat suits for Sheriff's departments and stockpiling equipment that has expiration dates instead of creating manufacturing capacity and hardening distribution networks.

I wonder what lessons we'll fail to learn.
Especially because this is not the kind of problem you can get catharsis from by bombing something.

[Darth Wedgius]

Any flaws you point out with his reasoning is a straw man.

That was a straw man.

That was just beautiful, actually. Thanks for the mood lift.

[Darth Wedgius]

As of yesterday the Corona Virus has now killed more Americans than died in 9/11 and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Essentially this just brought to an end the age of terrorism as the core topic of American policy.
You can see people struggling to fit it into that paradigm with the conspiracy theories about bio weapons.
But the truth is we are going to see a pathetic scramble to try and make the for profit American Health Care system fit into the new world this virus helps to illuminate.
For profit systems based entirely around having no backups, no flex space, no slack, and under staffing cannot deal with this sort of widespread nightmare.

I am certain we are going to see all the wrong kinds of policy come out of this just like with 9/11, where they will be buying hazmat suits for Sheriff's departments and stockpiling equipment that has expiration dates instead of creating manufacturing capacity and hardening distribution networks.

I wonder what lessons we'll fail to learn.
Especially because this is not the kind of problem you can get catharsis from by bombing something.

Tbh, I wish I could disagree with you more than I do. I don't agree with you 100% (I'm sure you're shocked) but more manufacturing capability (I'd add a "domestic" qualifier to that) that can be brought online quickly (maybe with stockpiled raw materials where not perishable) is a good idea, IMHO.

I do hope we look elsewhere at what worked and what didn't work across the world. The UK was hit pretty hard, death-wise (more than twice as many deaths per capita as the US); state-provided healthcare isn't a magic bullet. Germany was hammered hard with a lot of infections, but managed to keep their deaths per capita at about 2/3rds of the US's. I think Germany's response was helped by different regulations involving where tests could come from, and that could be worth doing here. The flawed tests the CDC put out (essentially rendered useless by false positives) may have been a big factor in the early spread in the US.

I think Greta Thunberg wants to give up commercial air travel (because of global warming). That might help contain similar diseases a lot. Yeah, that's huge, but, hey, it helps a little with global
warming too. It might not have even helped with this particular strain of coronavirus given the long time people are contagious before being symptomatic. Of course we had pandemics before widespread commercial air travel, too. And the 2009 H1N1 outbreak originated in Mexico.

Edit: One possible objection to Rocketboy1313's contention that this is a game changer is that many illnesses have surpassed Covid 19's current fatalities. For example, the CDC estimates 34,200 US flu deaths in the 2018 - 2019 flu season. But I don't think Covid 19 is done with us yet, and I think it's clear that Covid 19 has had a bigger psychological and economic effect.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

But the truth is we are going to see a pathetic scramble to try and make the for profit American Health Care system fit into the new world this virus helps to illuminate.
For profit systems based entirely around having no backups, no flex space, no slack, and under staffing cannot deal with this sort of widespread nightmare.

I doubt this event will elicit the type of reform you're postulating.

[clearspira]

As of yesterday the Corona Virus has now killed more Americans than died in 9/11 and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Essentially this just brought to an end the age of terrorism as the core topic of American policy.
You can see people struggling to fit it into that paradigm with the conspiracy theories about bio weapons.
But the truth is we are going to see a pathetic scramble to try and make the for profit American Health Care system fit into the new world this virus helps to illuminate.
For profit systems based entirely around having no backups, no flex space, no slack, and under staffing cannot deal with this sort of widespread nightmare.

I am certain we are going to see all the wrong kinds of policy come out of this just like with 9/11, where they will be buying hazmat suits for Sheriff's departments and stockpiling equipment that has expiration dates instead of creating manufacturing capacity and hardening distribution networks.

I wonder what lessons we'll fail to learn.
Especially because this is not the kind of problem you can get catharsis from by bombing something.

Tbh, I wish I could disagree with you more than I do. I don't agree with you 100% (I'm sure you're shocked) but more manufacturing capability (I'd add a "domestic" qualifier to that) that can be brought online quickly (maybe with stockpiled raw materials where not perishable) is a good idea, IMHO.

I do hope we look elsewhere at what worked and what didn't work across the world. The UK was hit pretty hard, death-wise (more than twice as many deaths per capita as the US); state-provided healthcare isn't a magic bullet. Germany was hammered hard with a lot of infections, but managed to keep their deaths per capita at about 2/3rds of the US's. I think Germany's response was helped by different regulations involving where tests could come from, and that could be worth doing here. The flawed tests the CDC put out (essentially rendered useless by false positives) may have been a big factor in the early spread in the US.

I think Greta Thunberg wants to give up commercial air travel (because of global warming). That might help contain similar diseases a lot. Yeah, that's huge, but, hey, it helps a little with global
warming too. It might not have even helped with this particular strain of coronavirus given the long time people are contagious before being symptomatic. Of course we had pandemics before widespread commercial air travel, too. And the 2009 H1N1 outbreak originated in Mexico.

Edit: One possible objection to Rocketboy1313's contention that this is a game changer is that many illnesses have surpassed Covid 19's current fatalities. For example, the CDC estimates 34,200 US flu deaths in the 2018 - 2019 flu season. But I don't think Covid 19 is done with us yet, and I think it's clear that Covid 19 has had a bigger psychological and economic effect.

The point that people keep missing (i'm not saying you are) is that seasonal flu killed 34,200 people in the US across 12 months. Covid-19 has killed 11,000 is just over one month. Unless this disease stops now, today, the comparable speed of those dying is staggering.
People who keep smugly comparing Covid to something else whilst decrying it as an overreaction need to shut up.

And as an aside, this is what a world without vaccinations looks like. But like I was saying a few comments back, a high proportion of the human race is actually quite moronic. Their fear of producing the next Rain Man or whatever is for some reason scaring them more than their kids lungs slowly filling with fluid.