SWTOR: Knights of the Eternal Throne (all the spoilers)

[Fixer]

youtu.be/LbpDxrew4A0

Hoo boy. There's a lot to catch up with on here. A quick recap.

KOTFE: Chapter 16 came out. Despite having some awesome combat mechanics and visuals, the "un-choice" at the end of the game and magical Koth teleporting onto your ship and stealing it was a giant size 12 steel toe capped boot to the crotch of any dark side player, telling them they suck and punishing them for not making the correct choice of being a light side Jedi Knight.

The HK-55 chapter came out and was actually pretty awesome. Though I think it highlights that it was a mistake to kill him off in the main storyline. I miss his murderous antics.

I also pre-emptively ruined the KotET theme tune for everyone.

youtu.be/S0h1x0VOL-Y

Knights of the Eternal Throne at least in my opinion, turned out to be pretty good.
Main characters you tried to kill actually died. A lot of the specific issues that were complained about were resolved. They focused on how important the Commander was instead of having him follow everyone. Lots of fun walker and mini fights. A lot of variation in terrain, getting to see Nathema at last.

The good
The set piece battles in KotET were awesome. Chapter 8 and the 2nd Battle of Odessen was what chapter 16 should have been. You get to see the assets you've gathered actually fighting. The final battle against Valkorion was epic.

Lots of callbacks for the Agent storyline. More than anyone else I think.

Iokath was incredible, had some Mass Effect feels to it. Looking forward to revisiting it.

The ability to be a ruthless hero was appreciated. I'm not so big on that redemption thing.

Plus, walker fights. They really need to add those to the main game.

The Meh
I really wish Acina wouldn't tell my Imperial or Sith stuff about the Empire as if they were a tourist.
The badass trailer to the game hinted at the Nathema asylum being a lot more cultish and spiritual in nature. Instead the indoctrination was technological. I feel the Nathema zealots could have been utilised better and made a hell of a lot more terrifying.

Valkorion's motivation. In the end it's entirely logical considering what we know of him, but I would have preferred there was actually some sort of benevolent idea behind it, or another secret that revealed that his goals weren't entirely malevolent. Instead it's just him being a villain which ends up being disappointing.

The only real way I can justify his actions is that Valkorion was a Zakuulan champion that somehow imprisoned/changed part of Vitiate in the way that Revan influenced him and only when Valkorion was slain by his son and he was fully re-united, he was finally free to act as he wished.

The bad
Poor SCORPIO, what have they done to you?
Sadly, SCORPIO's motivations went down the pan in KotFE and never really recovered. Especially considering her history with the Agent.

She went from desiring self improvement in all forms, to wanting to free her sisters, to wanting to discover her history, then wanting to have the choice to not be a weapon.

Cipher 9 gave you a choice when you were free of your frame before SCORPIO. Don't give me that crap. You want me to give you potential control of a dyson sphere. Allow my blaster to prevent any further betrayals.

The entire Command system they've been trying to fix. The one everyone was telling them was a stupid idea from the start. What were they thinking?

[hammerofglass]

I actually liked the way they did Vitiate, you don't see pure evil characters employ benevolence for tactical reasons all that often. Doing good things for evil reasons. He's sort of a dark mirror to a light-side Sith.

I hope they have some kind of payoff in mind for SCORPIO in the next one and this was just another fake goal of hers.

[Fixer]

The problem with Vitiate is that his Valkorion persona was entirely out of character with Vitiate/Tenebrae.

Tenebrae was an emotionless void as a child which persisted into his adult life. His goal was to consume life to obtain immortality. His spirit was split across several vessels including his voice, which he replaced often.

Valkorion is at odds with Vitiate's goals. He had an unstoppable fleet of ships and an army of force sensitives who's order was built in such a way to be completely loyal. Enough to easily overwhelm the Republic and complete the ritual that would make him all powerful. He had emotional relationships with people, showed actual care for the people of Zakuul.

These points are actually brought up in game. So it's massively disappointing when the ending and a twitter post eventually concludes "no he was just fooling you all this time" and there was nothing deeper or more nuanced to why Valkorion acted as he did. It's not terrible per se. The final battle was epic, but it feels lazy like they were tying off loose ends because they were short on time and didn't have the resources to do something more conclusive.

My own fan theory was that much like Revan had influenced Vitiate while imprisoned and connected to his mind, Valkorion the host was a physical prison for another part of him. The Champion of Zakuul had entrapped him in a host that had certain attachments to his people or a geas that forced him to work towards Zakuul's best interests and with the Scions of Zakuul had locked him into an inescapable prophecy.

Valkorion could not do evil himself, nor escape his host and the restrictions based upon him, but through simple neglect of his sons provoked one of them to slay him, freeing him at last. While he sought a new host, one of a few people that seemed to beyond prophecy and able to enact his will without restriction.

However, as you said the first time you saw him in the dreamscape. Valkorion was no longer the same mass murdering lunatic as Vitiate was. He had actually been changed somehow, even showing legitimate care and admiration for his new Eternal Empire or nostalgia for the old world.

A lot of those plot points that made that fan theory make sense, all seemed to have been dropped.

[hammerofglass]

I always thought the whole "kill everyone in the galaxy to become all-powerful ruler of nothing" was a bluff to drive the war forward. In the Jedi Knight story you can actually point out how stupid it is multiple times.

[Fixer]

I always thought the whole "kill everyone in the galaxy to become all-powerful ruler of nothing" was a bluff to drive the war forward. In the Jedi Knight story you can actually point out how stupid it is multiple times.

I thought his response that that was pretty epic.

"If you kill everyone in the galaxy, you'll be Emperor of nothing. What's the point of all this?"

"You discern a fraction of reality. Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. When the last living thing in the universe finally dies, I will enjoy peace and wait for the cycle to begin again."

[Steve]

I always thought the whole "kill everyone in the galaxy to become all-powerful ruler of nothing" was a bluff to drive the war forward. In the Jedi Knight story you can actually point out how stupid it is multiple times.

I thought his response that that was pretty epic.

"If you kill everyone in the galaxy, you'll be Emperor of nothing. What's the point of all this?"

"You discern a fraction of reality. Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. When the last living thing in the universe finally dies, I will enjoy peace and wait for the cycle to begin again."

Vitiate had some pretty good lines.

"I hold the patience of stone and the will of stars. Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same."

I still consider the Jedi Knight class story my favorite of the eight.

[Fixer]

While I rate the Knight story in the top 4 along with the Agent and both Sith storylines I tend to favour the replayability of the Imperial storylines and the moral flexibility they give. They can be murderous psychopaths, pragmatic loyalists, goody-two-shoes reformers or anywhere inbetween and it makes logical sense. For the JK you get the classic light side hero, or the hero who's a total dick.

I tried running Dark Side with a brand new freckled Sentinel girl and just swapped back to the light again.

It's definitely the most classic Star Wars style tale in the game. Also a must to know what the hell is going on with this Emperor guy. My first character was a Sorcerer and only heard about the guy in rumour.

Speaking of which, I hear that Chuck may be running a Sorcerer review

[Steve]

While I rate the Knight story in the top 4 along with the Agent and both Sith storylines I tend to favour the replayability of the Imperial storylines and the moral flexibility they give. They can be murderous psychopaths, pragmatic loyalists, goody-two-shoes reformers or anywhere inbetween and it makes logical sense. For the JK you get the classic light side hero, or the hero who's a total dick.

I tried running Dark Side with a brand new freckled Sentinel girl and just swapped back to the light again.

It's definitely the most classic Star Wars style tale in the game. Also a must to know what the hell is going on with this Emperor guy. My first character was a Sorcerer and only heard about the guy in rumour.

Speaking of which, I hear that Chuck may be running a Sorcerer review

...he's so going to roll a Captain Janeway clone for that one.

I was hoping to get a Smuggler or JK review from him at some point...

And to be honest, the only Imp storylines I've replayed are SW and IA, and that was for the DvL event. I don't think I'll ever favor Imp playing over Pub playing, I simply can't stand the Sith Empire as a faction and I want to see them suffer the proper fate of all totalitarians - crushing at the hands of the free societies they mock and despise.

I think it's just how I invest myself emotionally in a setting. Republic storylines fit that investment like a glove: the Imperial ones don't, even with how good the IA and SW ones are.

Of course, PvP is something else since it's clearly all simulations of some kind, and I don't mind signing on Zaccaren to go snipe people...

[Fixer]

...he's so going to roll a Captain Janeway clone for that one.

I was hoping to get a Smuggler or JK review from him at some point...

And to be honest, the only Imp storylines I've replayed are SW and IA, and that was for the DvL event. I don't think I'll ever favor Imp playing over Pub playing, I simply can't stand the Sith Empire as a faction and I want to see them suffer the proper fate of all totalitarians - crushing at the hands of the free societies they mock and despise.

I think it's just how I invest myself emotionally in a setting. Republic storylines fit that investment like a glove: the Imperial ones don't, even with how good the IA and SW ones are.

Of course, PvP is something else since it's clearly all simulations of some kind, and I don't mind signing on Zaccaren to go snipe people...

I personally love the fact that you can be a reformist within the Empire, freeing slaves, stopping people from being stupid-evil and giving Imperials/Aliens more rights and freedom while risking the wrath of their dark overlords for doing so.

The Agent storyline fits that perfectly, with the former minister of intelligence admitting he tried to make the Empire a better place with what power he had but admitting to having failed. Then on Makeb feeding fresh new idealistic recruits to reformed intelligence, passing the torch to Cipher 9 to do the same.

Also, you have to admit to having some pleasure in PVP turning Pubs to the Dark Side
3 more and I get a free latte at Dromund Kaasbucks!

[Independent George]

What's the best way to play SWTOR if you hate MMOs?

I have the free version of SWTOR. I played around with each of the classes, and then stuck with the Smuggler because I really dug her storyline. The thing is... I absolutely despise MMO gameplay. I stopped doing sidequests in chapter 1 because, well, they bored the crap out of me, and I was already at Level 50 near the start of chapter 2. Finally I gave up because the tedium didn't make up for the brief glimpses of story we got afterwards.

I'm kind of in between games right now, and I'm trying to decide if it's worth reinstalling SWTOR & having another go at it. My original goal was to play opposite-alignment in each of the four muggle classes.