Was Bane charismatic in Dark Knight Rises?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

You must be joking since you are using that silly expression.

I thought it was a sensible progression of character between the three movies.

He wants to serve justice but he is getting his grips on taking things to the edge

He masters his prowess while still not being able to protect those who he loves

He changes things around to bring light instead of darkness.

Michael Keaton's Batman doesn't really have an arc or anything it's more of a soap opera / sitcom dating situation, which is a nice touch I felt. They were each good movies that had distinct stories for Wayne, but he was very reserved imo and not very characteristic. Even compared to Michael Keaton's other rolls it leaves a bit to be desired.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Actually I never really considered how directional this Batman is on a more callous Frank Miller version.

[Beastro]

Nolan sucked out all the human decency of Batman out of the character, and that sophmoric Dark and Edgy Hot Take is being reflected in the public perception and lots of other popular media.

Sir, how DARE you. jk but really this is the best live portrayal of Bruce Wayne hands down, if just for film sake.

In terms of structure where does this Batman come up lacking as far as decency? I ask this with consideration specifically of him intentionally being an asshole as a guise to throw people off his trail.

I don't see that. To me Keaton is still best live action Batman and Bruce Wayne (both public persona and way he actually is). Bale as Bruce Wayne was far too obnoxious and wasn't subtle at all. Seriously Dark Knight Trilogy isn't masterpiece that Nolan fans like to make it seem like and it's way overrated for what it is. Only good part in all three movies was Heath Ledger as Joker. That's about it.

But that's the point of Bruce Wayne: He's supposed to be a empty headed, play-boy shell of a persona.
Everyone's reaction should be that he's too much of a spoiled idiot to ever possibly be Batman.

That's the amusing thing I find about Bill's lines in Kill Bill Vol.2 about Superman having Clark Kent as his alter-ego because if Batman began as an alter-ego, Bruce Wayne retroactively became one. Unlike being some alien who hides himself in daily life, Wayne transferred his main persona into his heroic role and used his outer shell as a cover and a font of money to maintain what he really wants to do in life: Endless beat up on bad people to ruminate over his demons.

The thing with Keaton's Wayne and TAS', which seems fairly emulative of the latter, was that they were personalities that stood on their own and were decent people, which while nice to see, are somewhat counter to what Batman is.

Bruce Wayne going off in his free time to be nice, or to simply just run his company, is not in keeping with Batman. Batman is a guy who spends his free time in his Cave scouring around on his computer for any possible crime, relaxing at most by pulling his mask off. He refuses to let go of his pain and is so concentrated on fighting evil he is nothing but his crime fighting persona.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yeah I was thinking that!

First off, the compassionate Bruce Wayne whose episode consist of him expanding his company's policies regarding senior citizens fits very nicely, though indubitably as a cartoon. It's like he has time to save the cat from the tree, and they don't do that bad of a job of it even in Justice League like when he has to talk to Ace. It doesn't really fit the more serious and dramatic you get.

Nolan's Wayne is a bit Rayndian in that this is practically a fetish thing for this Wayne. The first movie involves him essentially competing with the mobsters at outlawing, figuratively speaking. I'd say it's concrete evidence considering they had him be an outlaw for training himself in the movie.

The idealized version needs to be regal and esoteric, which is what they went for with Keaton, but you need a LOT more going on to take advantage of his auditorium suited looming presence, or it's just small scale (until you have 2 bad guys and an antihero foil in the next movie).

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Nolan's Batman would never have time for Ace, much less be able to help her. That's why Nolan is a hack.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Nolan's Batman would never have time for Ace, much less be able to help her. That's why Nolan is a hack.

Ace wasn't even in the movie so you don't know that.

[Mecha82]

Nolan sucked out all the human decency of Batman out of the character, and that sophmoric Dark and Edgy Hot Take is being reflected in the public perception and lots of other popular media.

Sir, how DARE you. jk but really this is the best live portrayal of Bruce Wayne hands down, if just for film sake.

In terms of structure where does this Batman come up lacking as far as decency? I ask this with consideration specifically of him intentionally being an asshole as a guise to throw people off his trail.

I don't see that. To me Keaton is still best live action Batman and Bruce Wayne (both public persona and way he actually is). Bale as Bruce Wayne was far too obnoxious and wasn't subtle at all. Seriously Dark Knight Trilogy isn't masterpiece that Nolan fans like to make it seem like and it's way overrated for what it is. Only good part in all three movies was Heath Ledger as Joker. That's about it.

But that's the point of Bruce Wayne: He's supposed to be a empty headed, play-boy shell of a persona.
Everyone's reaction should be that he's too much of a spoiled idiot to ever possibly be Batman.

That's the amusing thing I find about Bill's lines in Kill Bill Vol.2 about Superman having Clark Kent as his alter-ego because if Batman began as an alter-ego, Bruce Wayne retroactively became one. Unlike being some alien who hides himself in daily life, Wayne transferred his main persona into his heroic role and used his outer shell as a cover and a font of money to maintain what he really wants to do in life: Endless beat up on bad people to ruminate over his demons.

The thing with Keaton's Wayne and TAS', which seems fairly emulative of the latter, was that they were personalities that stood on their own and were decent people, which while nice to see, are somewhat counter to what Batman is.

Bruce Wayne going off in his free time to be nice, or to simply just run his company, is not in keeping with Batman. Batman is a guy who spends his free time in his Cave scouring around on his computer for any possible crime, relaxing at most by pulling his mask off. He refuses to let go of his pain and is so concentrated on fighting evil he is nothing but his crime fighting persona.

They still went overboard with it so much so that he would had suspicious to anyone smart enough to notice. Not to mention in Dark Knight Trilogy he never seemed to be very smart either. Something that every good version of character should be.

You made good discription about Keaton's and TAS Wayne. It does sum up nicely why I like them and why I don't like Bale' Wayne (besides of not being smart detective). I totally agree with what Doug Walker said in his Old vs. New video were he compared Batman 1989 and Dark Knight when it comes to Keaton's Wayne vs. Bale's Wayne.

Nolan's Batman would never have time for Ace, much less be able to help her. That's why Nolan is a hack.

Indeed. Nolan's Batman is far too self absorded for something like that. I do find it ironic that people are crying how Star Trek is supposingly grim dark and needs to be optimistic while admiring self absorded version of beloved hero.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

haha Rob is the brother.

[Mecha82]

Oh right. I fixed it.

[Jonathan101]

But that's the point of Bruce Wayne: He's supposed to be a empty headed, play-boy shell of a persona.
Everyone's reaction should be that he's too much of a spoiled idiot to ever possibly be Batman.

That's the amusing thing I find about Bill's lines in Kill Bill Vol.2 about Superman having Clark Kent as his alter-ego because if Batman began as an alter-ego, Bruce Wayne retroactively became one. Unlike being some alien who hides himself in daily life, Wayne transferred his main persona into his heroic role and used his outer shell as a cover and a font of money to maintain what he really wants to do in life: Endless beat up on bad people to ruminate over his demons.

The thing with Keaton's Wayne and TAS', which seems fairly emulative of the latter, was that they were personalities that stood on their own and were decent people, which while nice to see, are somewhat counter to what Batman is.

Bruce Wayne going off in his free time to be nice, or to simply just run his company, is not in keeping with Batman. Batman is a guy who spends his free time in his Cave scouring around on his computer for any possible crime, relaxing at most by pulling his mask off. He refuses to let go of his pain and is so concentrated on fighting evil he is nothing but his crime fighting persona.

Eh...no. That's not true at all,

Bruce is always "in danger" of slipping into a pure obsessive loner sort of person, especially when something extra-bad happens like Jason Todd being killed etc, but he's a 3-dimensional character and there is more to him than that.

The whole point of people like Alfred or Robin is to remind him that he has a nice, human side as well, and that it's okay to be happy once in a while and that you can be a crimefighter without being an asshole.

Bill was wrong about Clark Kent, and you are wrong about Bruce Wayne. Bruce likes to THINK that "Bruce Wayne is the mask, Batman is who I really am", but the truth is more like "Playboy Wayne is a mask, Batman is another mask, the real Bruce Wayne exists and is just a complicated guy with many sides".

The brooding paranoiac who spends all of his time sitting alone in a cave, shunning any real human connection unless he's playing a role or punching a clown in the face, that isn't the real Bruce Wayne. That's just Bruce Wayne when he's being moody. He just needs someone to cheer him up or bring out his softer side. The real Bruce is fully capable of being genuinely nice to people and actually enjoying the company of family and friends.