The great 2020 election thread....

[Captain Crimson]

I support feminism, and in fact I identify that way myself, but I tend to agree with lots of old-school thinkers who say it's the exaggeration, when they begin taking themselves way too seriously, that this becomes an issue. And that's the problem with modern society. These people take it way too seriously, like a crusade, even if it is important. And you want people to take you seriously if you ever expect to have any hope of persuading them to see your viewpoint, aye?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Feminism without a doubt has done a great deal to advance society. Black Lives Matter is a pretty temporal movement and pretty discrete within the larger framework of black activism that, like feminism, has advanced society.

[GreyICE]

As far as BLM being just a hashtag, hashtags don't get servers called "blacklivesmatter.com" or release statements to the media. These are the same ones that blamed the Pulse nightclub shootings on "anti-Black white supremacy, patriarchy and homophobia of the conservative right and of those who would use religious extremism as a weapon to gain power for the few and take power from the rest." They say crazy shit. People can be fighting for a noble cause without being noble people.

As I said, no mental capacity to discuss issues, just deflect with useless garbage like this. No links, no facts, just lies. You're a liar, and you're not very bright. That's everything I thought you'd be.

It's possible to discuss the actual systemic issues that face black people in society - a combination of criminalization of skin color and dramatically lowered opportunity that push criminal culture so heavily. Did you know that a black person is half as likely as a white person to be offered a job? Same qualifications, same experience, same everything - half as likely. Imagine it was twice as hard to find a job as it already was. Anyone who has been through a job search, imagine it was twice as difficult to find a place, twice as hard to find someone who wanted to hire you.

And that's at the start. Your entire career path is going to be impacted. Your resume won't be as good (because you're slower to be hired, and get hired for worse positions on average), which leads to long-term even further falling behind. The deck is rigged against you from the start. That's a systemic issue, and it has to be fixed.

Everything is just harder. You get pulled over by the cops more, you're getting ticketed more, you're getting denied housing, you're getting discriminated against at every turn. Not hard to feel the deck is rigged against you - because it is.

[JoeThree]

As far as BLM being just a hashtag, hashtags don't get servers called "blacklivesmatter.com" or release statements to the media. These are the same ones that blamed the Pulse nightclub shootings on "anti-Black white supremacy, patriarchy and homophobia of the conservative right and of those who would use religious extremism as a weapon to gain power for the few and take power from the rest." They say crazy shit. People can be fighting for a noble cause without being noble people.

As I said, no mental capacity to discuss issues, just deflect with useless garbage like this. No links, no facts, just lies. You're a liar, and you're not very bright. That's everything I thought you'd be.

It's possible to discuss the actual systemic issues that face black people in society - a combination of criminalization of skin color and dramatically lowered opportunity that push criminal culture so heavily. Did you know that a black person is half as likely as a white person to be offered a job? Same qualifications, same experience, same everything - half as likely. Imagine it was twice as hard to find a job as it already was. Anyone who has been through a job search, imagine it was twice as difficult to find a place, twice as hard to find someone who wanted to hire you.

And that's at the start. Your entire career path is going to be impacted. Your resume won't be as good (because you're slower to be hired, and get hired for worse positions on average), which leads to long-term even further falling behind. The deck is rigged against you from the start. That's a systemic issue, and it has to be fixed.

Everything is just harder. You get pulled over by the cops more, you're getting ticketed more, you're getting denied housing, you're getting discriminated against at every turn. Not hard to feel the deck is rigged against you - because it is.

Thanks for telling me how much my life sucks, white savior man!

[Darth Wedgius]

As far as BLM being just a hashtag, hashtags don't get servers called "blacklivesmatter.com" or release statements to the media. These are the same ones that blamed the Pulse nightclub shootings on "anti-Black white supremacy, patriarchy and homophobia of the conservative right and of those who would use religious extremism as a weapon to gain power for the few and take power from the rest." They say crazy shit. People can be fighting for a noble cause without being noble people.

As I said, no mental capacity to discuss issues, just deflect with useless garbage like this. No links, no facts, just lies. You're a liar, and you're not very bright. That's everything I thought you'd be.

Well, I can't argue with that logic. When you get some logic, I'll argue with it, though. In the meantime, I'm happy with people making their own judgements by the facts and links I gave.

It's possible to discuss the actual systemic issues that face black people in society - a combination of criminalization of skin color and dramatically lowered opportunity that push criminal culture so heavily. Did you know that a black person is half as likely as a white person to be offered a job? Same qualifications, same experience, same everything - half as likely. Imagine it was twice as hard to find a job as it already was. Anyone who has been through a job search, imagine it was twice as difficult to find a place, twice as hard to find someone who wanted to hire you.

And that's at the start. Your entire career path is going to be impacted. Your resume won't be as good (because you're slower to be hired, and get hired for worse positions on average), which leads to long-term even further falling behind. The deck is rigged against you from the start. That's a systemic issue, and it has to be fixed.

Everything is just harder. You get pulled over by the cops more, you're getting ticketed more, you're getting denied housing, you're getting discriminated against at every turn. Not hard to feel the deck is rigged against you - because it is.

It has nothing to do with what I'd been talking about, but OK. Not universally, but sure, but n average. I figure there's more anti-black discrimination than anti-white, anti-asian, anti-latino, etc. I've long been in favor of strict metrics for hiring and promotion. Make things objective so biases you don't even know you have can't come into play. Maybe not for every mom and pop shop, but maybe if you want a piece of the government business.

Did you know that men are far more likely to be homeless? To be in prison? That man have far fewer shelters? And do you know what that has to do with any of this? Absolutely nothing. That's what everything you said had to do with what I was talking about, too. Some odd coincidence, huh? Weird how that just kinda happened.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Somehow I don't expect the guy with a Judge Dredd avatar to provide a nuanced take on issues of police and crime.

And Crimson, who is exagerrating? You talk about feminism going to far and MeToo movement getting out of hand, but you haven't shown me any actual examples of what you're talking about. Are the feminists trying to do something about on-campus rape taking themselves too seriously? Is it the women accusing Joe Biden of sexual assault taking themselves to seriously? Who are these people and what are they doing wrong?

Feminism has ALWAYS been "going too far" since the movement existed. Look at some political cartoons about suffragettes. The complaint has been made since women wanted the vote, since they wanted to own property, since they tried to get the right to open up their own bank account or control their own bodies.

[GreyICE]

I'm always curious about things like this. Like, do they read their own propaganda?

I'm in favor of a housing-first approach to homelessness, basic income, and universal healthcare. I want prisons focused on rehabilitation and less criminalization of poverty. All programs that, according to Darth Wedgius, disproportionately benefit men. In other words, I support programs that help out exactly the sort of men who he claims to be caring about. And here's the funny thing - Wedgius opposes them. The programs I support to target the problems he outline, which - according to him, not me - would disproportionately benefit men. And yet he's against them.

Now I don't want to suggest that he's crying crocodile tears, and gives zero shits about homeless men, men in prison, or men who need shelters except to bash on feminism. But there are a fair few Republicans who do. Anti-homeless rhetoric is extremely common. Tough on crime is a stance very common with Republicans, and very popular with our president. "Tough policing", "tough on crime", "homeless are lazy", "stop supporting the parasites", etc. All common.

So it seems to me if you want to label a party anti-male, it's pretty clearly the Republican party, based on exactly the criteria Darth Wedgius outlined. The Democrats are doing the most to support exactly the men he wants to support.

Darth Wedgius, have you considered joining the party that actually cares about you and the men you want to help, rather than the one that constantly shits on them and denigrates them?

[Darth Wedgius]

I'm always curious about things like this. Like, do they read their own propaganda?

I'm in favor of a housing-first approach to homelessness, basic income, and universal healthcare. I want prisons focused on rehabilitation and less criminalization of poverty. All programs that, according to Darth Wedgius, disproportionately benefit men. In other words, I support programs that help out exactly the sort of men who he claims to be caring about. And here's the funny thing - Wedgius opposes them. The programs I support to target the problems he outline, which - according to him, not me - would disproportionately benefit men. And yet he's against them.

Now I don't want to suggest that he's crying crocodile tears, and gives zero shits about homeless men, men in prison, or men who need shelters except to bash on feminism. But there are a fair few Republicans who do. Anti-homeless rhetoric is extremely common. Tough on crime is a stance very common with Republicans, and very popular with our president. "Tough policing", "tough on crime", "homeless are lazy", "stop supporting the parasites", etc. All common.

So it seems to me if you want to label a party anti-male, it's pretty clearly the Republican party, based on exactly the criteria Darth Wedgius outlined. The Democrats are doing the most to support exactly the men he wants to support.

Darth Wedgius, have you considered joining the party that actually cares about you and the men you want to help, rather than the one that constantly shits on them and denigrates them?

Well, poverty isn't criminalized. Be happy.

I haven't seen a lot of anti-homeless rhetoric from Republicans. I've seen suggestions that some people choose homelessness. And I've seen support for shelters for men that had nothing to do with bashing feminism.

I've also seen plenty of people disparage men as a class, and those seem to come from the left.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Elizabeth Bruenig
@ebruenig
·
7h
One thing I’ve learned about elections is that while you must soothe and cajole moderates to win their votes, you can only win leftist’s votes by insulting and browbeating them...few recognize this

[GreyICE]

Well, poverty isn't criminalized. Be happy.

I haven't seen a lot of anti-homeless rhetoric from Republicans. I've seen suggestions that some people choose homelessness. And I've seen support for shelters for men that had nothing to do with bashing feminism.

I've also seen plenty of people disparage men as a class, and those seem to come from the left.

I recommend you read [url=https://ips-dc.org/the-poor-get-prison-the-alarming-spread-of-the-criminalization-of-poverty/]The Poor Get Prison[/url]. It's a fantastic place to start on something that - and I say this without judgment - you are completely ignorant of.

As for Republicans, well, lets just poll Glorious Leader:

TRUMP: It’s a phenomenon that started two years ago. It’s disgraceful. I am looking at it very seriously. We are doing other things, as you probably noticed, like some of the things we’re doing now. But you can’t do that. You can’t have [it] where police officers are getting sick just by walking the beat. I mean, they’re actually getting very sick. Where people are getting sick. The people living there are living in hell too. Although some of them have mental problems where they don’t even know they are living that way. In fact, perhaps they like living that way. They can’t do that. We can’t ruin our cities. You have people that work in those cities. They work in office buildings and to get into the building they have to walk through a scene that no one would have believed possible three years ago. This is the liberal establishment. This is what I am fighting. I don’t know if they are afraid of votes. I don’t know if they really believe that this should be taking place. But it’s a terrible thing that is taking place.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/trump-homeless-urinating-making-cops-sick-walking-beat-fox-news-tucker-carlson-interview-liberal-cities.html

But lets ignore his rambling, inane speeches. We're all used to him saying random shit, like homelessness started in 2017, and other random bullshit like that. What about his policies?

https://nlihc.org/resource/president-trump-proposes-drastic-cuts-affordable-housing-programs

Drastic cuts to affordable housing to the tune of $9.6 billion, which would create tens of thousands more homeless, if not hundreds of thousands.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/politics/food-stamps-work-requirements-usda-rule-blocked/index.html

Cut food from to 500,000 Americans, narrowly blocked by an injunction (because this administration rules by decree, not democracy).

Even the criminal justice reform he touted was undermined by his own justice department, as the First Step Act (a slight rebrand of the 2014 Redeem bill) has been attacked by his own DOJ, even as he touts it: https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/02/trump-just-bragged-about-criminal-justice-reform-look-closer-at-how-his-administration-is-undoing-it/

So on every front, I see the Republican party being extremely anti-male by your own definition. So I guess I have to ask, why do you hate men? You know these policies disproportionately hurt men, yet you're enacting them anyway. Is this misandry?