Joe Biden defense thread

[Captain Crimson]

Actually, the Equal Rights Amendment was less than 50 years ago. It was immensely controversial. To this day, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South & North Carolina, Louisiana, Arkansas, Utah, Arizona, and Missouri have not ratified it. While it was useful, it was litigated for years. And as we can see, many states still can't find majorities to ratify it.

So when you say "150 years ago" it's complete horseshit. We're talking effects that are a few decades old. We're talking modern day for employment discrimination, modern day for legal discrimination, modern day for widespread racism and anger over it.

So yes, it's not a surprise that a quarter the country is racist. It's really not.

False attribution. Half the country doesn't vote, so of course some states can't ratify it still. And at the same time, your assertion, which is the impression I get, that anyone voting for Mr. 45 is a dividing line you can't come back from, is appeal to emotion. Once you give him a vote, you're guilty, end discussion. Can we please examine why they voted for him? But you can't, can you? Because you can't interview 62 million people. A lot of slippery slopes were used in 2016, that we'd become Nazi Germany 2.0. How's that working out now?

[GreyICE]

False attribution. Half the country doesn't vote, so of course some states can't ratify it still. And at the same time, your assertion, which is the impression I get, that anyone voting for Mr. 45 is a dividing line you can't come back from, is appeal to emotion. Once you give him a vote, you're guilty, end discussion. Can we please examine why they voted for him? But you can't, can you? Because you can't interview 62 million people. A lot of slippery slopes were used in 2016, that we'd become Nazi Germany 2.0. How's that working out now?

I feel like you say a bunch of words you don't understand. For instance, False Attribution is when you refer to a source of information that doesn't exist (i.e. "Einstein said quantum mechanics didn't make any sense and couldn't be true"). However the list of states who haven't ratified the Equal Rights Amendment is something that very much exists: https://www.equalrightsamendment.org/era-ratification-map

So I'd call your post: an appeal to desperately wishing other people had as little understanding of things as you do.

I'm not sure what the rest of the word salad means, except that you're very angry that racism exists, and to fight it you've chosen to attack anyone who points out that racism clearly still exists and is a major problem by screaming random nonsense.

[Captain Crimson]

False attribution. Half the country doesn't vote, so of course some states can't ratify it still. And at the same time, your assertion, which is the impression I get, that anyone voting for Mr. 45 is a dividing line you can't come back from, is appeal to emotion. Once you give him a vote, you're guilty, end discussion. Can we please examine why they voted for him? But you can't, can you? Because you can't interview 62 million people. A lot of slippery slopes were used in 2016, that we'd become Nazi Germany 2.0. How's that working out now?

I feel like you say a bunch of words you don't understand. For instance, False Attribution is when you refer to a source of information that doesn't exist (i.e. "Einstein said quantum mechanics didn't make any sense and couldn't be true"). However the list of states who haven't ratified the Equal Rights Amendment is something that very much exists: https://www.equalrightsamendment.org/era-ratification-map

So I'd call your post: an appeal to desperately wishing other people had as little understanding of things as you do.

I'm not sure what the rest of the word salad means, except that you're very angry that racism exists, and to fight it you've chosen to attack anyone who points out that racism clearly still exists and is a major problem by screaming random nonsense.

I stand by my statement, even if you can't apply the literal letter of logic to it, as a natural consequence of the fact half the country doesn't vote or participate in civic affairs, so that the ratification of equal-rights laws are slow to implement. That's true for all laws, like cattle-rustling from the 19th century. We don't have the information to the motives of why those people don't vote. It also might seem outdated to some in these states because they foolishly assume racism is dead.

I actually laughed there. And not mockingly. I loved that little jab there. I can admit I was trying to overcompensate a little to try and make a point. Well played.

Then I'll get more direct. My larger assertion is I strongly object to placing a dividing line on a vote thrown to Mr. 45 as the place you cannot come back from, and label anyone who does so a bigot. He said other stuff past his racist and sexist policies which could have prompted people to vote for him. And there are also the party loyalists who felt deeply conflicted. What percentage within the greater voting electorate do they make up? Democrats have them as well. It's why I'm suspicious about people citing these claims because they tend to have an agenda they want to push, whether they admit it or not. Yellow press is insidious a force as ever, and it's making it very hard to discern lie from truth.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I'm not talking about worldly revolution lol I'm talking about the US history. tbs, What, does China or India have UHC? Does the European Union organize subsidized healthcare?

It is the biggest development of the healthcare system since WWII. It wasn't particularly cheap so it's not impossible for it to be scrutinized, but it's nonetheless effective to a capacity and is ultimately an indication of government orchestrating rational fiscal directives that cooperate with a market economy.

With all due respect, this is so jingoistic it's borderline racist. It's well understood the American system doesn't work, and we have dozens of examples of better systems with superior outcomes. You throw a dart and you hit one of them. Back pre-Obama, one of the favorite whipping boys of "both sides" was healthcare. Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Rachel Maddow, Bill Maher and Norman Mailer rarely all agree on something, but every one of them thinks healthcare in the United States fucking sucks.

Romneycare, as it was originally called back when Mitt Romney proposed it for his state, is a band aid slapped over a gaping wound.

I don't feel this responds precisely to what I was saying. That being said, I do not disagree with the state of the American healthcare system. I don't believe that that fact supplants what I was saying.

I do feel that you are undermining the complexity of the US legal system, but we haven't really gotten into it, so I'm fine with where we're at regarding this.

If you want to get into specifics that'd be cool. I believe at the very least he has been able to produce sound bites for key agendas, contrary to what you're indicating about his platforms. Until further notice or more specific information then I'm not of the mind to undermine his generally progressive campaign.

Oh boy, which wonderful Biden incident or vote do you want? The time he voted against racial equality? His votes against gay rights? Eh, any politician that old has some votes they regret.

Lets discuss how Joe Biden systemically worked with banks to bury the American people in debt: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/11/biden-bankruptcy-president/

Really, watching the rally behind him as Bernie became a real threat, complete with fucking Bloomberg jumping in, was as pathetic as it was predictable.

Yeah he has a pretty checkered past. I remember at the recent debate when Kamala was all "you's a fool Biden" for the bus policies followed subsequently by her endorsement of him immediately after she backed out. Personally I don't feel he's inclined to make the same mistakes, but I admit that that's not necessarily an adequate measure of accountability for him. As far as the debt, I will spend some time looking into this. Lots of bad financial decisions that take all shapes and sizes.

[SSJGodGoku]

One consistent thing about Biden is that he will lie and cheat.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/echoes-of-bidens-1987-plagiarism-scandal-continue-to-reverberate/2019/06/05/dbaf3716-7292-11e9-9eb4-0828f5389013_story.html

https://www.c-span.org/video/?3683-1/biden-campaign-appearance&start=2485

He is every bit the tool Trump is just in the blue instead of the red.

Exactly!

American politics is a fucking joke.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

One consistent thing about Biden is that he will lie and cheat.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/echoes-of-bidens-1987-plagiarism-scandal-continue-to-reverberate/2019/06/05/dbaf3716-7292-11e9-9eb4-0828f5389013_story.html

https://www.c-span.org/video/?3683-1/biden-campaign-appearance&start=2485

He is every bit the tool Trump is just in the blue instead of the red.

Exactly!

American politics is a fucking joke.

A joke?? People's lives are at stake here.

[GreyICE]

I stand by my statement, even if you can't apply the literal letter of logic to it, as a natural consequence of the fact half the country doesn't vote or participate in civic affairs, so that the ratification of equal-rights laws are slow to implement. That's true for all laws, like cattle-rustling from the 19th century. We don't have the information to the motives of why those people don't vote. It also might seem outdated to some in these states because they foolishly assume racism is dead.

I actually laughed there. And not mockingly. I loved that little jab there. I can admit I was trying to overcompensate a little to try and make a point. Well played.

Then I'll get more direct. My larger assertion is I strongly object to placing a dividing line on a vote thrown to Mr. 45 as the place you cannot come back from, and label anyone who does so a bigot. He said other stuff past his racist and sexist policies which could have prompted people to vote for him. And there are also the party loyalists who felt deeply conflicted. What percentage within the greater voting electorate do they make up? Democrats have them as well. It's why I'm suspicious about people citing these claims because they tend to have an agenda they want to push, whether they admit it or not. Yellow press is insidious a force as ever, and it's making it very hard to discern lie from truth.

Ratification is done by the state legislature actually, and doesn't require a popular vote (except inasmuch as the legislature is elected). So that means no legislature in any of those states at any point since the ERA was proposed thought "oh hey, we should probably ratify this, seeing as how not ratifying it is sending a very particular message". A number of other states have, most recently Nevada, and yet there's a few holdouts.

I'm not saying that Trump's racism and sexism mean that every single person who voted for him is racist and sexist. [url=https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/]This article is worth a read.[/url] Yes, I know it's cracked. Despite that, good article. I think a lot of votes for Trump were a "vote for a brick through the window."

Regardless, the article makes a good point about passive racism - there's a lot of racism that's "black/asian/etc. people are fine, as long as they're exactly like us." In other words, there's no particular moral difference between listening to rap, playing basketball for fun, and admiring street art vs. listening to country music, playing football for fun, and admiring demolition derbies. But these sorts of differences in non-white people immediately trigger a response.

And yes, no one party has a monopoly on racists. But I think it's impossible to ignore things like Trump retweeting white supremacists, Charlottesville and the constant presence of racist and Nazi imagery in alt-right rallies, and the growing presence of racism as an explanation for our problems. America is very fucked up right now, and like Germany of the past, it's easy for demagogues to point to an outside group that's different and go "it's nothing we did! We were doing everything right! It's those evil outsiders who were plotting against us and making us weak! We have to purge them!

Is a quarter of America racist? Yeah, probably. This is a very interesting poll in many ways: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/04/09/race-in-america-2019/

[Robovski]

One consistent thing about Biden is that he will lie and cheat.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/echoes-of-bidens-1987-plagiarism-scandal-continue-to-reverberate/2019/06/05/dbaf3716-7292-11e9-9eb4-0828f5389013_story.html

https://www.c-span.org/video/?3683-1/biden-campaign-appearance&start=2485

He is every bit the tool Trump is just in the blue instead of the red.

Exactly!

American politics is a fucking joke.

A joke?? People's lives are at stake here.

A sick joke then, played on the American people.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Even though I'd probably do an exaggerated slow walk to get the bucket if he was on fire, he has some pretty appealing actual policies. His Violence Against Women Act approach looks great, especially the attention it pays to supporting traditionally exploited and vulnerable Native women and LBTQ women.

[SSJGodGoku]

One consistent thing about Biden is that he will lie and cheat.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/echoes-of-bidens-1987-plagiarism-scandal-continue-to-reverberate/2019/06/05/dbaf3716-7292-11e9-9eb4-0828f5389013_story.html

https://www.c-span.org/video/?3683-1/biden-campaign-appearance&start=2485

He is every bit the tool Trump is just in the blue instead of the red.

Exactly!

American politics is a fucking joke.

A joke?? People's lives are at stake here.

I mean it's a joke because it's so fucked up that there are no good options.