I Believe In You

[SFDebris]

"They can be a great people, Kal-El; they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way."

It goes without saying that politics is on everyone's mind of late. There is violence, there is animosity, there is uncertainty. It is natural to wish to defend things one believes in, and to condemn that which one rejects. There is also, understandable, concerns about apathy and complacency. I can say this, because I believe that to understand my position properly demands that I understand the positions of those that disagree with me. Not understand what their arguments are, but WHY they hold those positions, how those positions make sense to them.

But say I'm wrong. Say there's an aspect I am missing in that. The only way I'm going to see that is to hear it from someone who disagrees with me. Yet, I'm not inclined to listen to anyone who is a chore to deal with. What's more, and I think this is important, if you have something you believe in, and you want to discuss it, you are not just the messenger, you are the missionary. You are representing your belief. If you act like an awful person, your message is tarnished simply by its association with you.

This sub-forum can be one of two things to me. It can, on the one hand, be a sewer, a place where the unpleasant shit gets dumped so it doesn't wind up overflowing onto the rest of the forum. Or, it can be a sign that we are better than cynics think. This can be a place where people who disagree fundamentally can still discuss things without resorting to tribalism, bile, and hatred, but instead engage in rational discourse even on the most contentious of topics.

We are all fans of science fiction and fantasy here. We are stereotyped as being angry, ranting, unpleasable misfits. But I have always believed that we are more inclined towards intelligence, that our ability to consider other possibilities extends to the ability to look at things different than others who are incapable of thinking as abstractly as we can. If this section achieves anything, it should be to prove that fans of SF and Fantasy can discuss anything in a civil way, can rise above the fray and engage in a discussion based on the rational rather than on scoring points, throwing insults, and labeling.

So I ask you, please:
-Don't bait others
-Don't take the bait others offer
-Don't believe that hostility is a virtue
-Win me over with your actions as much as your words
-Prove my faith in you is well-placed

Because I don't care how loud some people can get. People are better than the news suggests, they're better than what comment sections suggest, they're better than what your favorite political news site suggests. I believe in the human race, and I definitely believe in all of you. Be the light.

[excalibur]

[Rocketboy1313]

"Fight less; talk more; say sorry sometimes." -Mikey Neumann

[Darth Wedgius]

I think I started a whole new round of venom when I asked how both sides could tamp down political violence in the U.S. I've never been quite sure of the modern definition of irony, but I think that one tragilariously(1) fits. Not that I stayed above the fray. I don't want to give myself airs of superiority, at least not when I know I can't get away with it.

I think I'll take a 30 day break from politics in these forums. The second law of thermodynamics is, if I understand it correctly, statistical at its heart. Heat can randomly converge, in the most technical sense of the word "can". The same way I "can" dance, actually. Yet, if all the universe were nothing but teapots and water, the odds are that no teapot would spontaneously come to a boil; so the odds of any given teapot coming to a boil in your kitchen is astronomically negligible.

And yet that's still more likely than changing someone's mind on the Internet.

(1) Obviously, the best way to be sure of the definitions of words is to make up my own words. It really is the most logicoolest option.

[LittleRaven]

I share your faith, SFDebris.

[Steve]

And this is why I enjoy the man's work so much.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Thank you. I'm going to think about this thread carefully before I start a new thread or post a reply in this subforum.

[Admiral X]

This sub-forum can be one of two things to me. It can, on the one hand, be a sewer, a place where the unpleasant shit gets dumped so it doesn't wind up overflowing onto the rest of the forum. Or, it can be a sign that we are better than cynics think. This can be a place where people who disagree fundamentally can still discuss things without resorting to tribalism, bile, and hatred, but instead engage in rational discourse even on the most contentious of topics.

This has been a concern or mine as well. It's kind of funny, in a way, that I'm also a member of an actual political discussion board, and it can get every bit as nasty in there, too. The difference is, I expect it there. Though to be honest, I'm not spending as much time over there, either.

I'd like to think that it's possible to discuss media without getting into the politics. Of course with most sci-fi and fantasy, there's a lot of politics in it (like say TNG's "Neutral Zone"). Could do without the nastiness, though.

To those saying they plan on taking a break from the board - why? Then there is less discussion, period, not just the stuff in this sub-forum. We just need to chillax a bit, that's all.

[The Romulan Republic]

Its difficult for people to discuss politics without getting hostile, because the issues are of such significance, and the sides have become so polarized. I get that, even if I wish it weren't so (while also acknowledging I am not without guilt).

But I really don't get nastiness over media (unless the discussion of said media goes in a direction that has serious political implications), even if I've gotten caught up in it at times. I mean- why try to viciously attack another person just because they have a different opinion of a fictional universe?

Debating SF is supposed to be my escape from the stress of debating politics, damn it!

[Karha of Honor]

Its difficult for people to discuss politics without getting hostile, because the issues are of such significance, and the sides have become so polarized.

When the polls said that Republicans and Democrats liked one other the issues were just as significant.