why does star fleet have so many uniform changes

[chaos42]

agreed starfleet has always been a military its just that the first 2 seasons had gene's meddling. Militaries are not evil in and of themselves and they do more than go into battle.

But the uniform issue still bugs me why keep doing it, i remember someone once tried saying it was a way to identify when you are for time travelers- a little crazy if you ask me

As opposed to using a watch?

no when they are in space time -as in what era so they can adapt on the fly -it was a silly idea but the basic premise someone had. i don't get it. but either way it sill isn't a good reason for all the uniform changes

[Beastro]

But yeah, the uniforms needed pockets. How many times has someone stood there and held something awkwardly?

That just made me think of how furious a nuts and bolts mechanical engineer type like O'Brien would bitch about that sort of thing. He's the sort of guy I could see walking around with a tool belt on his hip at all times just in case he might need to use something rarely.

[chaos42]

rarely obrien has to pull pannels off and fix things so often that should be a drinking game, take a shot every time someone pulls off a pannel

also yes pockets or a vest with holsters for tools is a good idea -also give the away team personal shields like in the online game make it some jacket they put on in the field that way they don't die from one shot and you have fewer red shirt deaths ( i know they are in gold but its the concept)

[Nealithi]

Starfleet serves as the military, because someone has to. But until the Defiant, Starfleet had no ship designed entirely for combat. Imagine asking someone in the Navy about where the classrooms were, or the art galleries, or the science labs. People were running experiments all the time.

But yeah, the uniforms needed pockets. How many times has someone stood there and held something awkwardly?

So two points to consider here. True they had a 'science officer' on the bridge. But he was less a laboratory scientist and more the sensor operator. Similar to a sonar man on a navy vessel. And he pulled data from the library computer for fast fact checking. Sulu was originally a scientist before they just left him at the helm. Classrooms and science labs. I suppose that depends on the ship. Many ships have machine shops to make new components and the like. An area to examine an unusual find is not unheard of on larger ships. And the ToS Enterprise was the length of the then new Enterprise carrier. So it had the extra space.
As to art galleries, entertainment centers etc. The ship was setup to be away from bases or resupply for five years. I think they needed to stuff all the could into that hull.

Back to uniforms, I need to get out of universe and have a meta look a moment. Gene supposedly wanted a sleek design. No fasteners showing, no holsters etc. The idea was that the uniforms were beamed onto you. Your phaser and communicator just attached to the uniform. Removing any need for 'pockets'. This is why they used pull over shirts in ToS. It was as close as the costume department could get. They handled the type 1 phaser and communicator with velcro. So on the outside we see Gene's idea tried a few times and not working in the 20th century. After he is kicked upstairs they get visible fasteners and two piece outfits and some attempts to make the uniforms more practical. Then for the prequel with Archer the designers do manage to be practical.
In universe. Okay bear with me. I was in the Air Force between 1989 and 1993. We had BDU's with all those pockets. But the uniform requirements were that they were to be ironed flat all the time and NOTHING is to be carried in them. One convenient trick was to just sew the pockets down, cut off the buttons so they can't wear on nor press on the fabric. And sew the pockets shut. All to pass inspection. I mention when I was in so you both understand this may have changed with the passage of time and changes needing people in actual combat instead of looking like perfect toy soldiers.
So USAF uniform inspections made the pockets useless. Designer for the next batch might just remove them as being useless.

[clearspira]

Starfleet serves as the military, because someone has to. But until the Defiant, Starfleet had no ship designed entirely for combat. Imagine asking someone in the Navy about where the classrooms were, or the art galleries, or the science labs. People were running experiments all the time.

But yeah, the uniforms needed pockets. How many times has someone stood there and held something awkwardly?

So two points to consider here. True they had a 'science officer' on the bridge. But he was less a laboratory scientist and more the sensor operator. Similar to a sonar man on a navy vessel. And he pulled data from the library computer for fast fact checking. Sulu was originally a scientist before they just left him at the helm. Classrooms and science labs. I suppose that depends on the ship. Many ships have machine shops to make new components and the like. An area to examine an unusual find is not unheard of on larger ships. And the ToS Enterprise was the length of the then new Enterprise carrier. So it had the extra space.
As to art galleries, entertainment centers etc. The ship was setup to be away from bases or resupply for five years. I think they needed to stuff all the could into that hull.

Back to uniforms, I need to get out of universe and have a meta look a moment. Gene supposedly wanted a sleek design. No fasteners showing, no holsters etc. The idea was that the uniforms were beamed onto you. Your phaser and communicator just attached to the uniform. Removing any need for 'pockets'. This is why they used pull over shirts in ToS. It was as close as the costume department could get. They handled the type 1 phaser and communicator with velcro. So on the outside we see Gene's idea tried a few times and not working in the 20th century. After he is kicked upstairs they get visible fasteners and two piece outfits and some attempts to make the uniforms more practical. Then for the prequel with Archer the designers do manage to be practical.
In universe. Okay bear with me. I was in the Air Force between 1989 and 1993. We had BDU's with all those pockets. But the uniform requirements were that they were to be ironed flat all the time and NOTHING is to be carried in them. One convenient trick was to just sew the pockets down, cut off the buttons so they can't wear on nor press on the fabric. And sew the pockets shut. All to pass inspection. I mention when I was in so you both understand this may have changed with the passage of time and changes needing people in actual combat instead of looking like perfect toy soldiers.
So USAF uniform inspections made the pockets useless. Designer for the next batch might just remove them as being useless.

Damn. Don't get me wrong, I believe you, but having a uniform with pockets you are banned from using is insane. It's almost a parody.

[Nealithi]

Damn. Don't get me wrong, I believe you, but having a uniform with pockets you are banned from using is insane. It's almost a parody.

I generally thought the same. But then I would fail inspection and those that did these things passed. Also why I accept ribbing on the Air Force being the least military of the four branches.

[GreyICE]

So two points to consider here. True they had a 'science officer' on the bridge. But he was less a laboratory scientist and more the sensor operator. Similar to a sonar man on a navy vessel. And he pulled data from the library computer for fast fact checking. Sulu was originally a scientist before they just left him at the helm. Classrooms and science labs. I suppose that depends on the ship. Many ships have machine shops to make new components and the like. An area to examine an unusual find is not unheard of on larger ships. And the ToS Enterprise was the length of the then new Enterprise carrier. So it had the extra space.
As to art galleries, entertainment centers etc. The ship was setup to be away from bases or resupply for five years. I think they needed to stuff all the could into that hull.

Calling Spock a "sonar operator" seems entirely inaccurate. He's multiple times portrayed as one of the top minds in the Federation for quickly solving problems, and if in the 21st century would have multiple PhDs.

Similarly, I think there's this impression that the Enterprise is one of the least armed ships in Starfleet, when every single source in universe says repeatedly that it is one of the most heavily armed ships in Starfleet. Because the exploration missions are so often dangerous, the Enterprise is armed to the teeth compared to the average vessel, with many times more weapons and shields. Most other Starfleet ships we see are completely outclassed by the Enterprise. We see many scientific cruisers and ships on missions of discovery where the average crewmember hasn't been attacked by anything ever.

So I think it's safe to conclude the Enterprise is the most militarized ship in the entire fleet (along with any other exploration ships), because it is in the most constant danger.

Also, why is there this fetish for concluding that Starfleet has to operate like a 20th century military? We are told repeatedly it doesn't work that way, we are shown things inconsistent with 20th century military operations, we witness multiple things that don't work like a military (including having families on board for pete's sake). Imagine that in the future, military that resembles conventional militaries at all is entirely obsolete. Honestly Star Trek is some of the most conservative science fiction when it comes to societal change - most others don't see anything resembling our current army at all, for fairly obvious reasons.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

It's actually just kind of weird that Enterprise D ended up with no dedicated science officer. Geordi actually seems more intelligible than Spock or Dax. I don't know why he switched shirts but still his role as engineer is seriously vamped compared to Scotty's, and the show couldn't think anything better than to make a ruse of it with him being useless as a main plot point.

Overall they made Geordi more scientifically entertaining than both Dax and Spock combined.

Oh yeah and anyways, the bridge is the worst representation or basis of description for a science officer's job. Everything they encounter that they have to learn about, that being their primary function, has to go through the science officer. I think 60's Trek didn't really represent the pursuit of science that greatly making it predominantly about the captain is retroactively capable of science but never handled it originally. Fair enough for exploration I suppose, just still seems odd maybe.

[chaos42]

i feel the science officer is something that we have only really seen with dax data was operations he was just an android with super intellegence, and geordi was almost as good as that votra's boast about turning rocks into replicators. With ds9 they gave the characters more defined rolls obrien was the tech guy he build and repaired everything on the station, dax was science, though she was shifted more towards being one of the commanding officers later in the series after the dominion war was getting started up and bashir took over as general smarts because they all knew he was genetically engineered.

but that actually makes me think of another issue frequently the wrong colored division is seen for a job. like for example dax she had been put in charge of the defiant and wasn't really doing science anymore during the war so why was she not in a red uniform like worf or sisko who are in a command position

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

but that actually makes me think of another issue frequently the wrong colored division is seen for a job. like for example dax she had been put in charge of the defiant and wasn't really doing science anymore during the war so why was she not in a red uniform like worf or sisko who are in a command position

While there's no path to command for a security or engineer, it was made a point a number of times as I recall that science officers tend tend to have a steady path to command. Geordi and Data also are each at the minimum comfortable to sit in the chair and think of their own special firing mechanism on the spot if they have to. And at the very least Troi and Beverly are command capable and they are in the health field.

Then Dax specifically is written as generally more competent than anyone else at potentially anything where IQ or time developed skill is a factor. Though to be frank I'm personally at a miss for how they characteristically developed her aside from winning Worf's heart (which is no small feat).

i feel the science officer is something that we have only really seen with dax data was operations he was just an android with super intelligence, and geordi was almost as good as that votra's boast about turning rocks into replicators. With ds9 they gave the characters more defined rolls obrien was the tech guy he build and repaired everything on the station, dax was science, though she was shifted more towards being one of the commanding officers later in the series after the dominion war was getting started up and bashir took over as general smarts because they all knew he was genetically engineered.

I think Geordi is supposed to be an anomaly. Then again so is Wesley and Barclay. Only way they could up that on DS9 yeah was with Bashir.