RedLetterMedia - Star Trek Picard

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Star Trek has been on a dreary slope since DS9. I get that DS9, NX-01 era, and the delta quadrant are supposed to be detached from Federation ideal landscape, but that's been the whole point of any show since the dominion war along with the last 2 TNG movies.

The thing was DS9 kept with the spirit. It criticized Federation society but it was "loyal" criticism. This modern strain pretty much sees nothing good in the Federation, nothing ever was good with it in the first place, and those bucking the system have the true transcendent path to the real perfect society.

Saying there's nothing good about the Federation is in line with claiming that there's nothing good about the modernist western world. That's not particularly the point and what they're doing with the Federation is a pretty logical development in allegory.

Of course when you make a show in the 60's and have adversarial races based on the Communist Soviets and Chinese, then you can have a pretty safe mainstay of a premise. That largely wears thin when you always pretend that the ideals you draw upon don't come with any challenges of their own.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I guess though the Berman era can be seen as an ideal middle ground.

[Link8909]

I personally stopped watching their reviews after they did a short video about their opinion on how Star Trek (2009) ruined the Star Trek continuity by showing a woman being sexually assaulted by a man in a cardboard suit of the Star Trek (2009) movie poster, and then in the review of the movie, actually defended what they said, it was incredibly disgusting and very petty.

I guess though the Berman era can be seen as an ideal middle ground.

Recently Bryan Fuller did an interview with Inglorious Treksperts (the highlights and full interview can be found on TrekMovie.com) and the way he described Rick Berman personally reminds me of the mentality of the guys at RedLetterMedia and many of the click-bait channels on YouTube, that Rick Berman didn’t want things to change, he wanted the shows he worked on to be just like The Next Generation.

However a lot of the other staff at the time wanted to do different story ideas but were unable to because of Rick Berman, the only reason Deep Space Nine was able to do what it did was because Ira Stephen Behr, “didn’t give a f[RED ALERT] what Rick Berman said.”

With this in mind and Renegade Cut's video on Rick Berman, I'm personally glade he is no longer working on Star Trek anymore, he seemed more of a creative hinderance, only wanting to play it safe, which ended with Star Trek Enterprises (a show with a brilliant premise) slow decline in views and premature cancellation.

With Alex Kurtzman, we now find ourselves in unknown times for Star Trek, it no longer has to stick to a formula and has the potential to be anything, I personally like this as I have no idea what to expect for anything that comes out now.

Link to the Interview:
https://trekmovie.com/2020/05/29/bryan-fuller-describes-star-trek-voyager-serialized-year-of-hell-season-rejected-by-rick-berman/

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yeah yeah Berman's an asshole, it doesn't change any regard for how the shows turned out. Yes that he stifled creative development for people working for him, but he had a very successful operation artistically.

I recognize that he's gone and I'm fine with the new people trying to get a grip with things.

I personally stopped watching their reviews after they did a short video about their opinion on how Star Trek (2009) ruined the Star Trek continuity by showing a woman being sexually assaulted by a man in a cardboard suit of the Star Trek (2009) movie poster, and then in the review of the movie, actually defended what they said, it was incredibly disgusting and very petty.

I forgot about that one.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Btw how happy of a place can Starfleet be when they have family filled ships regularly going into dire conflicts? The things your state will have you do.

[Nobody700]

Honestly it feels like they love nitpicking things and making things sound worse than they were.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Honestly it feels like they love nitpicking things and making things sound worse than they were.

They review the plot and the decisions the characters make on a rational basis. This ranges from casual nuances to themes in the show and developments of the characters.

I think a lot of plot deconstructions on the internet can seriously be missing the forest for the trees. Also I'm not really sure if I agree with how it all adds up as per their point here. But I think they make a respectable effort to come across lucid, and don't result to pessimistic arguments involving their work.

[Beastro]

With Alex Kurtzman, we now find ourselves in unknown times for Star Trek, it no longer has to stick to a formula and has the potential to be anything, I personally like this as I have no idea what to expect for anything that comes out now.

The issue is it lacks the same spirit. One could say that's ultimately subjective, but we'll have to see how all of this is looked back on.

I personally see nothing good coming of it save to, perhaps, ruin Trek enough to let it lay fallow for awhile and allow for another take to be made on it, but I speak as someone who desires much the of everything else that is a continuation of something old that's been made in these past 15-20 years or so.

But I think they make a respectable effort to come across lucid, and don't result to pessimistic arguments involving their work.

Keep in mind RLM caught a lot of flak for not doing this very thing to 2009 Star Trek, with Mike daring to say he liked it at the time. I don't know why he took that position, but I think a problem RLM runs into is the audience they breed, and it's one that feeds on pessimism because of the tone they've set. I look back on shows like MST3K and the first ten years of the Simpsons, and what I love about them is that they were both skewering and decent in ways that made them more endearing compared to, say, rewatching a good deal of South Park when the shock was much of the appeal.

[clearspira]

Honestly it feels like they love nitpicking things and making things sound worse than they were.

Certainly there is that argument. The nit that springs to my mind is Generations where they note things like the glittery border on Picard's photo album. That isn't even on my radar.

However, I would also say that they have made some great pieces as well; that moment where they go scene by scene to show why the Anakin/Padme relationship does not make coherent sense is really well done. No woman when confronted by Anakin as presented as opposed to Anakin as intended is going to want him as a boyfriend.

[clearspira]

With Alex Kurtzman, we now find ourselves in unknown times for Star Trek, it no longer has to stick to a formula and has the potential to be anything, I personally like this as I have no idea what to expect for anything that comes out now.

The issue is it lacks the same spirit. One could say that's ultimately subjective, but we'll have to see how all of this is looked back on.

I personally see nothing good coming of it save to, perhaps, ruin Trek enough to let it lay fallow for awhile and allow for another take to be made on it, but I speak as someone who desires much the of everything else that is a continuation of something old that's been made in these past 15-20 years or so.

But I think they make a respectable effort to come across lucid, and don't result to pessimistic arguments involving their work.

Keep in mind RLM caught a lot of flak for not doing this very thing to 2009 Star Trek, with Mike daring to say he liked it at the time. I don't know why he took that position, but I think a problem RLM runs into is the audience they breed, and it's one that feeds on pessimism because of the tone they've set. I look back on shows like MST3K and the first ten years of the Simpsons, and what I love about them is that they were both skewering and decent in ways that made them more endearing compared to, say, rewatching a good deal of South Park when the shock was much of the appeal.

I guess its a question of perspective. 2009 had problems, but it DID seem fresh and new at the time. And the concept of telling new stories by changing history (meaning that all of the stuff we loved is still there, its just somewhere else) is an interesting one. You can do literally ANYTHING in such a world and not break canon to anything but the nitpick level.