Another day, another police beating in America

[Riedquat]

K, so no real problem there. But in the general philosophy of judging a society and how they treat its offenders, this is a pretty crucial case to understand where they're coming from.

I mean that might be a "at the very least" kinda thing or something idunno.

I understand exactly where the protestors, including any attacking the police, are coming from. I don't understand where people just rioting by smashing anything up are coming from unless it's just a pathetic desire to break stuff.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

They are still putting my city under a 6PM-6AM curfew. What's the point of having a curfew for all non-essential personelle when you already have a shelter-in-place order?

Anyway it's not like they did a curfew whenever the sportsball team won and the fans rioted.

[GreyICE]

That's an interesting framework, but I think it might break down between state and civilian levels. These riots are happening all over as a proxy effect of one case that got nationwide coverage. Organizing this as a marshal retaliatory measure, then you start to recognize it as something the state has to more or less deal with as a guerilla invasion.

I just think it might be better to treat it as a civilian issue, which I'm sure the UN has guideline definitions for such treatment affairs that don't involve the State being implicated by smaller incorporated jurisdictions (that talk to the state before the fed).

It's not a matter of how we wish to treat it. It's a matter of how it works. Police forces in society where there is no justice are either another gang, or ruthless enforcers. Both of them must be treated this way. Gangs have to have their nose blooded by other gangs, that's how gang battles work. They certainly don't sit down and discuss things over nice cups of tea. Enforcers exist to carry out the state's will through violence and terror. They are an occupying army, and must be interacted with as such.

All attempts to treat it as a civilian issue must first suppose that everyone is treated as equals, because everyone involved is a civilian, Which is how it should be. Cops are civilians, protesters are civilians, unless you're in the military you're a civilian. But if the cops are treated unequally, they are not being treated as civilians.

It's pretty simple - without justice, there's no justice. It's a principle so basic it's a tautology. In that case there is no possibility of discussing what is justice, because the society does not operate that way. Without the rule of justice, we revert to the rule of vengeance. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

I'd certainly love for it to be treated as a civilian matter. In that case, the police better start by treating other cops committing crimes exactly as they would anyone committing a crime.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

That's an interesting framework, but I think it might break down between state and civilian levels. These riots are happening all over as a proxy effect of one case that got nationwide coverage. Organizing this as a marshal retaliatory measure, then you start to recognize it as something the state has to more or less deal with as a guerilla invasion.

I just think it might be better to treat it as a civilian issue, which I'm sure the UN has guideline definitions for such treatment affairs that don't involve the State being implicated by smaller incorporated jurisdictions (that talk to the state before the fed).

It's not a matter of how we wish to treat it. It's a matter of how it works. Police forces in society where there is no justice are either another gang, or ruthless enforcers. Both of them must be treated this way. Gangs have to have their nose blooded by other gangs, that's how gang battles work. They certainly don't sit down and discuss things over nice cups of tea. Enforcers exist to carry out the state's will through violence and terror. They are an occupying army, and must be interacted with as such.

All attempts to treat it as a civilian issue must first suppose that everyone is treated as equals, because everyone involved is a civilian, Which is how it should be. Cops are civilians, protesters are civilians, unless you're in the military you're a civilian. But if the cops are treated unequally, they are not being treated as civilians.

It's pretty simple - without justice, there's no justice. It's a principle so basic it's a tautology. In that case there is no possibility of discussing what is justice, because the society does not operate that way. Without the rule of justice, we revert to the rule of vengeance. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

I'd certainly love for it to be treated as a civilian matter. In that case, the police better start by treating other cops committing crimes exactly as they would anyone committing a crime.

Well I'm sure there's a degree to that you can describe of the United States or any society with prevalent cracks in their social justice. I wonder how the UN would interpret the event with such considerations.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Buzzfeed is doing a running list of hoaxes to correct misinformation and rumor
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/hoax-misleading-claims-george-floyd-protests

[pilight]

But then, I don't know why I should believe this autopsy and not the previous one... Except for the vague reason that I expect it's easier to miss something that's there than to see something that isn't.

You could just as easily ask why you should believe the first one and not the later one.

The City Coroner's report was preliminary. A full report from that office has not yet been issued.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

The president has now threatened to use the military to kill USA citizens on USA soil.

[pilight]

The president has now threatened to use the military to kill USA citizens on USA soil.

Good thing we have the second amendment. It exists so we can fight back against things like that.

[Darth Wedgius]

But then, I don't know why I should believe this autopsy and not the previous one... Except for the vague reason that I expect it's easier to miss something that's there than to see something that isn't.

You could just as easily ask why you should believe the first one and not the later one.

The City Coroner's report was preliminary. A full report from that office has not yet been issued.

Both those are good points.

[ProfessorDetective]

1) This started on my birthday...

2) Tear gas during the outbreak of a viral respiratory disease... Nice...

3) Thankfully my area's been calm. Knoxville's protests haven't boiled over, so far. Nashville's burning, though.

4) The protesters were justified, the instigators lighting the powder leg and the senseless rioters putting the torch to innocent shops aren't. These damn dirty cops need to be locked up NOW.