DIS - Project Deadalus

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I don't feel they balanced out his initial self. They showed how time had caught up with him, but they could have had some competency to his day in a manner that adds dimension to how he is the way he is. For that matter, I thought it was very intriguing in character development how they started turning it around for him at Hawkeye's farm, but we had neither got much overt arrogance on his part either.

[GreyICE]

Man, Picard, I wanted to love it, I really did. Here's about my reaction in order:

Episode 1/2/3: Oh man, this is a GREAT Setup. A clear mission, a good cast of characters with some friction and some tension, a clear mission, and a very open ended story.

At this point we had a cast and crew, a background, and a way forward. Picard, Raffi, Jurarti, Elnor, Soji, and Rios. I can't say one thing bad about this setup. I could watch these six people do things for days. And genuinely, watching each one was a pleasure in the following episodes. So what happened?

Episodes 4-8: We go on a side tangent about Seven of Nine that derails the plot for two episodes. Then we go on a a little tangent with Hugh and some borg drones. Then we go visit Riker and Troi.

It's at this point I realize I'm not watching a Star Trek show, I'm watching Star Trek fanfiction. We spent three episodes gathering the cast and crew. So if Seven of Nine was going to be part of that WHY ISN'T SHE IN THOSE THREE EPISODES?!? If you spend three whole episodes on recruiting and backstory, I don't want to see recruiting and backstory in the next five episodes.

Then we randomly beam to planet Riker for fanservice.

By the time Riker warped in for a cameo with the Federation fleet after we've established he's left the Federation, because why the fuck not, who gives a shit, I was pretty done with this entire thing. You know who we put in charge of our fleet to fight big threats? A retired admiral who has spent the last twenty years raising a family.

I could get into all the moments of truly uninspired writing and direction that showed the show was an incoherent mess, but I really don't have the time right now. Lets just say that the show started as me really enjoying it, and went off the rails to the point where I'm far less excited about season 2 than I am Season 3 of Discovery.

And I'm less excited about either than I am about getting more Orville.

[Makeshift Python]

Regarding Riker, they actually make it a point to mention that he's on reserve, which was planted there to set up his appearance in the finale. The only other time we saw a retired Starfleet officer recalled to service was McCoy in TMP.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Regarding Riker, they actually make it a point to mention that he's on reserve, which was planted there to set up his appearance in the finale. The only other time we saw a retired Starfleet officer recalled to service was McCoy in TMP.

Also Kirk in Generations.

[RobbyB1982]

and edgy stuff like cursing

I'm fine with cursing. People have ALWAYS cursed, Shakespeare plays are full of cursing. It makes the dialogue more natural.

Its when they use curse words for punctuation to try and be edgy and cool about it and make and entire moment out of someone saying the word "fuck" like "oooh, we're SO daring!" that it becomes stupid and excessive.

[FlynnTaggart]

I'm fine with cursing. People have ALWAYS cursed, Shakespeare plays are full of cursing. It makes the dialogue more natural.

Its when they use curse words for punctuation to try and be edgy and cool about it and make and entire moment out of someone saying the word "fuck" like "oooh, we're SO daring!" that it becomes stupid and excessive.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against cursing in general but depends on the context. Like you said it being :edgy and cool" is about I feel about it in the show, why I had a problem with it. Trek has had cursing since probably the beginning, I'm fairly sure that Bones said "dammit" alot. But it was not gratuitous, did not come off as "oh we're so edgy by making a swear word". The Admiral cursing out Picard just felt that way to me, done solely to show how much edge the show had.

Plus gratuitous swearing, along with full on Klingon tits, might limit the ability for younger viewers. Trek is not Game of Thrones (though I'm sure some parents are fine with their kids watching that, must be awkward as heck if they do it together), it should be able to be watched by everyone. Having characters curse up a storm and other "mature" themes might have some parents telling their kids "lol no" trying to watch the show between the cursing, nudity, sexual themes, mutilation, and heads being lopped off. Alot of adults myself included grew up watching TOS, TNG, or the later Trek series, kids today with the dark and edgy approach might not be able to (one can debate whether they'd want to anyway but thats beside the point).

Though yes I do fully acknowledge the hypocrisy of complaining about "naughty words" while barely giving much of a mention to people dying and being badly injured graphically.

[GreyICE]

Regarding Riker, they actually make it a point to mention that he's on reserve, which was planted there to set up his appearance in the finale. The only other time we saw a retired Starfleet officer recalled to service was McCoy in TMP.

Yes, I know they dropped the thread there. It still doesn't mean the Federation is going to go pull him out of retirement for it. Maybe if he pulled together a rag-tag group of ships using his contacts, but that looked as impressive as anything we saw during the Dominion War. It's like assembling your full modern fleet to go intervene in a country to prevent an ongoing crisis... and dragging some admiral out of retirement to go lead it.

It's gratuitous fanservice, and it hurts the verisimilitude of the world in the same way that getting turned into newt creatures and then being magically fixed in sickbay by the end of the episode does. It doesn't feel like something that could happen in the fictional universe, it feels like something put in for fans. Maybe if they took the time to show that the Romulans had been mind controlling Starfleet leadership and they needed an Admiral they were sure escaped it... but that would add more backstory in a show already overburdened by it (and it makes sense, instead of just being 'cool')

At least Discovery, for all my ongoing narrative complaints, has only a few of those moments (Spock...). It's realistic that Pike, someone we know, could be put in temporary command of Discovery. Hell, I'm not even complaining about Seven or Hugh, those were logical arcs for the characters (I am complaining that Seven got her own character intro after three episodes of character intros, that's a different issue). Riker and the fleet were gratuitous, in the worst way.

[chaos42]

its not as bad as abrams trek and i feel its getting bashed a lot more than those movies which don't feel like trek more like guns blazing sci fi which while it has its place isn't star trek, i don't mind star fleet acting badly, leadership changes and we have had idiots in charge nechayev for example, and don't forget that those worlds that were complaining might have had vested interests in romulan government collapsing -resources of near by systems. I feel that it could be expanded upon. Also while echebs death being sad, former borg being killed for their tech thats something interesting and i think there are a lot of possibilities here.

[Makeshift Python]

its not as bad as abrams trek and i feel its getting bashed a lot more than those movies which don't feel like trek more like guns blazing sci fi which while it has its place isn't star trek, i don't mind star fleet acting badly, leadership changes and we have had idiots in charge nechayev for example, and don't forget that those worlds that were complaining might have had vested interests in romulan government collapsing -resources of near by systems. I feel that it could be expanded upon. Also while echebs death being sad, former borg being killed for their tech thats something interesting and i think there are a lot of possibilities here.

And the Federation has been recovering from what's the most grueling war the Alpha Quadrant has ever seen, so it's understandable that people a very vulnerable and uptight post-war, and it's up to old dogs like Picard to try to instill old values.

Will be curious to learn more about the power dynamics of post-Dominion War. After DS9, we didn't really get much info on how things played out. The Cardassians are obviously no longer a major power. The Klingons were expected to be horribly weakened post-war, leaving the Federation and Romulus as the only big powers. VOY pretty much ignored Earth's recovery, understandably. NEMESIS shook things up by dismantling the Romulan senate and leaving a power vacuum, which likely factored in why the Romulans were such a destabilized power that they could barely help themselves, especially once their homeworld was obliterated. Curious about how much the Klingons had recovered in the 20 years.

[RobbyB1982]

its not as bad as abrams trek

The Abrams movies were STUPID. Really, really stupid. I have seen them once, I hated them. STUPID. Completely missed the nuances of the characters and rolled more on the broad parody stereotypes (as one might expect from someone who wasn't actually a fan of the franchise directing.)

But at least it was bright and shiny and the overall *mood* felt like Trek, even if it was prioritizing bad humor and dumb action over thoughtful plots. It felt like it was TRYING to be Star Trek even if the director wasn't totally the right guy, and by their third film they had it.

The more recent series feel the opposite. Like they're ashamed of their history and doing everything they can to be NOT Trek. "This isn't your daddy's old outdated quaint show, this is hardcore and dark!" seems to be their mantra. If you removed the transporters, changed the name of the Federation to "The alliance" and changed the species names of the vulcans and klingons, you'd never know Discovery was Star Trek at all.

Picard, purely based on the trappings of having Patrick Stewart in it feels a little more like it, but... if it wasn't Picard? It it was retired admiral Taylor instead, and 7of 9 didn't show up? Change the name of the borg and its not Star Trek anymore. With all the discussion on artificial life and death, and dark cinemetography, its much more at home as a Battlestar Galactica miniseries.

(And a romulan offshoot basically being Space Elves with a Legolas stand in is still really really weird.)

If the ONLY thing you have to do to make a series seem like its a completely new franchise is change some names, then its not really hitting the feel of the franchise or history its a part of.