DIS - Project Deadalus

[CaptainCalvinCat]

and edgy stuff like cursing

I'm fine with cursing. People have ALWAYS cursed, Shakespeare plays are full of cursing. It makes the dialogue more natural.

Its when they use curse words for punctuation to try and be edgy and cool about it and make and entire moment out of someone saying the word "fuck" like "oooh, we're SO daring!" that it becomes stupid and excessive.

Hey, remember the time, when no one cursed on Star Trek? Like - never? Picard saying "Merde", Data saying "oh Shit", I think, even McCoy said something like "You're pissing me off". I have no problem with Admiral "Pottymouth", if have no problem with Tilly saying something like "this is fucking cool".
I have a problem with people, making a big deal out if this. Yeah, they're cursing - deal with it.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The CQC scenes definitely could use some refinements, as I was thinking watching S1 and S2 I believe.

I was wondering the other day if Chuck would mention the issue of being upside down in space. Personally I ended up just imagining that scans for significant infrastructures set for calibration parameters, with the S31 base being that. Though yeah it's still funny.

I really personally wonder if we were supposed to think Spock was losing to Kirk at chess on purpose. I just remember it trying to be more about Kirk besting Spock at Chess with no indication that he was turtling on purpose.

[Riedquat]

Hey, remember the time, when no one cursed on Star Trek? Like - never? Picard saying "Merde", Data saying "oh Shit", I think, even McCoy said something like "You're pissing me off". I have no problem with Admiral "Pottymouth", if have no problem with Tilly saying something like "this is fucking cool".
I have a problem with people, making a big deal out if this. Yeah, they're cursing - deal with it.

I couldn't care if they swear if it seems natural for the characters to be doing it but some writers do still think they're being big and that it has some sort of helpful shock effect if it's unexpected and inappropriate or out of the established character.

[Captain Crimson]

If it helps, I think it was edgy and inappropriate in STG as well. Data literally only dropped an S-bomb because it's a movie and they can do that now. Also the same movie where Data finally has emotions, and... they don't really do anything with that. So context matters.

[RobbyB1982]

Hey, remember the time, when no one cursed on Star Trek? Like - never?

Sure, but that was BS&P. No one cursed on ANY show for decades, that wasn't just a Star Trek thing.

Again, natural use of flavor words is fine, especially if something scary or unexpected happens. Its when they slow it down and make an entire scene out of it and milk it as "ooh, we're cursing now, ain't we fancy?" that it becomes stupid and you really notice it and it feels out of place.

[CrypticMirror]

If it helps, I think it was edgy and inappropriate in STG as well. Data literally only dropped an S-bomb because it's a movie and they can do that now. Also the same movie where Data finally has emotions, and... they don't really do anything with that. So context matters.

It was the same reason the animated Transformers: The Movie had Spike say "shit", to avoid the G-rating. At least in Generations is sounds awkward because of the emotion chip shenanigans, Admiral O'Sweary-Knickers has no such excuse. Her trying to swear sounds more awkward and forced than a thirteen year old swearing at their mum for the first time to try and sound big and adult. Frankly, even Girl-Wesley's swearing sounded less forced, because at least that one was meant to sound forced and awkward; the former's swearing had no such self-awareness to it.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

If it helps, I think it was edgy and inappropriate in STG as well. Data literally only dropped an S-bomb because it's a movie and they can do that now. Also the same movie where Data finally has emotions, and... they don't really do anything with that. So context matters.

And it was inappropriate and edgy, when Picard said "Merde", too, yes?

@CrypticMirror: Actually, her swearing sounds very natural - that's how people are talking these days. Michael Mittermeier said, back in the days (early 90s) "The americans say fuck to everything. 'fuck you fucking salesman, give me that fucking coke out of the fucking refrigerator."
Granted, that was comedic back then - but read the forums, listen to people: They use "fuck" very often, even in 2020.

[CrypticMirror]

If it helps, I think it was edgy and inappropriate in STG as well. Data literally only dropped an S-bomb because it's a movie and they can do that now. Also the same movie where Data finally has emotions, and... they don't really do anything with that. So context matters.

And it was inappropriate and edgy, when Picard said "Merde", too, yes?

@CrypticMirror: Actually, her swearing sounds very natural - that's how people are talking these days. Michael Mittermeier said, back in the days (early 90s) "The americans say fuck to everything. 'fuck you fucking salesman, give me that fucking coke out of the fucking refrigerator."
Granted, that was comedic back then - but read the forums, listen to people: They use "fuck" very often, even in 2020.

Not to my ear it doesn't, and I'm Scottish and we swear a lot. It comes across as stilted and fits poorly into the dialogue as performed. It doesn't make her sound adult or natural, it makes her sound childish and unprofessional.

[Captain Crimson]

If it helps, I think it was edgy and inappropriate in STG as well. Data literally only dropped an S-bomb because it's a movie and they can do that now. Also the same movie where Data finally has emotions, and... they don't really do anything with that. So context matters.

And it was inappropriate and edgy, when Picard said "Merde", too, yes?

@CrypticMirror: Actually, her swearing sounds very natural - that's how people are talking these days. Michael Mittermeier said, back in the days (early 90s) "The americans say fuck to everything. 'fuck you fucking salesman, give me that fucking coke out of the fucking refrigerator."
Granted, that was comedic back then - but read the forums, listen to people: They use "fuck" very often, even in 2020.

1. That was in another language.
2. He only said it in S2, and that was the season that first "showed promise." They toned it all down once the stories got better.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

If it helps, I think it was edgy and inappropriate in STG as well. Data literally only dropped an S-bomb because it's a movie and they can do that now. Also the same movie where Data finally has emotions, and... they don't really do anything with that. So context matters.

And it was inappropriate and edgy, when Picard said "Merde", too, yes?

@CrypticMirror: Actually, her swearing sounds very natural - that's how people are talking these days. Michael Mittermeier said, back in the days (early 90s) "The americans say fuck to everything. 'fuck you fucking salesman, give me that fucking coke out of the fucking refrigerator."
Granted, that was comedic back then - but read the forums, listen to people: They use "fuck" very often, even in 2020.

Not to my ear it doesn't, and I'm Scottish and we swear a lot. It comes across as stilted and fits poorly into the dialogue as performed. It doesn't make her sound adult or natural, it makes her sound childish and unprofessional.

Honestly - I don't care, if you're Scottish and you swear a lot - I'm German and I don't swear that often. But the people I live on the planet with do - every day, from dawn 'till dusk, they're bombarded with "fuck this" and "fuck that" and "son of a bitch" and "you're a piece of shit" and the more they're bombarded with this language, the more they emulate it and the more this language is part of our normal life. You can like it or not, you can say this makes Admiral McSwearypants childish and unprofessional - which it did, which was kind of the point, if you ask me - but the fact is, that even on this very own homepage, the f-bomb gets dropped very often. Even Chuck uses curse-words - "look, all I ask, is that you're consistent with your bullshit", he said "fuck you" to - I think, every character, that he despises, he called Neelix "da Scheißkopf", which is "Shithead" in something, sounding German - we actually don't have the Word "Scheißkopf" in our vocabulary - he uses "dipshit" and other flavoured words on this very homepage of his.

In Germany, we have an expression. You call it ""Dem Volk aufs Maul schauen" - oh boy, I'd like to hear Chuck say that, because I think, his German is not that bad. He could need practice, maybe on how to pronounce things, maybe on how to build proper German sentences and maybe in the translation-department, but he should never ever give up on trying. Anyway- "Dem Volk aufs Maul schauen" means in literal terms "look on the mouth of the people", the right translation would be: "listen to how people talk".

Why would you do that? Well - the language of the persons on the streets ideally causes people to relate to the persons talking like they do. I'm sure, there is a technical term for this in the scholar world of social studies, however the point being: If I have a character in my script/book/play/audiobook that speaks like me, chances are, I use that person as my character of reference. Jack O'Neill on Stargate is a prime example of that, so is John Sheppard over on Stargate Atlantis. They listen to all the Carters, Jacksons and McKays and translate their technobabble into language we actually can understand, flavoured with some nice pop-cultural references, we can smile, because we got them better.
And writing a script in a way, the audience talks a) makes them relate to my characters and b) is a very old technique. Did anyone of you watch the movie "His girl friday"? There is a scene, in which Cary Grants character and Rosalind Russel talk to each other, then the dialogue turns into an argument, which leads Grant to talk over Russel and Russel to yell over Grant in a great back-and-forth, that is called the "overlapping dialogue"-technique. This happens in Real Life, when a heated discord is taking place and both sides think, that their argument is more valid than the other. So they talk louder to drown the others argument.
Not nice - but effective.

That is the way, people talk - so it needs to be depicted in a movie. Same goes for cursing. And this more "realistic" style of conversation is used in a whole lot of movies and tv-shows - so, why are we so upset, if Trek does this, as well? Personally, I ask myself: Why haven't they done that earlier?

@CaptainCrimson: There is literally no difference between saying "shit" in English or "shit" in French - except it is said in another language. The word stays the same, so - either you say "Yeah, that was edgy and inappropriate back in season 2" or you shrug and say "meh, I don't have a problem with Data saying "shit" and I have no problem with other Trek-Characters cursing.