Unpopular opinions/going against the grain of the conventional wisdom, let's talk about it

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yes the Pon Farr happens every 7 years to the males, but they can mate whenever they chose just like humans.

T'Pol went through Pon Farr.

[clearspira]

I'm going to have to nitpick you on this, Vulcans don't only have sex every 7 years.

Yes the Pon Farr happens every 7 years to the males, but they can mate whenever they chose just like humans.

The writer of the Pon Farr episode even kept on correcting fans about this, with both "Word of God" and in-universe proof.

Thats fair enough, but just so we do not get accused of going off topic allow me to present my next controversial opinion: Pon Farr therefore is flawed writing because that is not how "being on heat" works. You are either a species with a biological mating cycle or you aren't.

It is also why we have to forget the ENT retcon designed to get Jolene in her panties as both sexes do not "heat". It defeats the purpose. More evidence incidentally of how not progressive Trek was even in the 21st century.

[Hero_Of_Shadows]

Yes the Pon Farr happens every 7 years to the males, but they can mate whenever they chose just like humans.

T'Pol went through Pon Farr.

That was a bacteria that triggered it in her.

Believe me I also thought it was for both sexes until I looked it up last year for a post on reddit.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yes the Pon Farr happens every 7 years to the males, but they can mate whenever they chose just like humans.

T'Pol went through Pon Farr.

That was a bacteria that triggered it in her.

Believe me I also thought it was for both sexes until I looked it up last year for a post on reddit.

Shows what I know.

[Captain Crimson]

I fail to see why a show needs perfect 50.50 gender, race and sexuality division, mainly because real life isn't that and it should be obvious that it isn't. The human race would not be 8 billion strong if gays numbered anywhere near that.

Other than that though, I find myself agreeing with GreyIce. Even accepting half a century of cultural advancement, which imo only TOS and early TNG can really use as an excuse, Trek's claim to be diverse is a joke.

And even at the time I remember people remarking how ridiculous 7 of 9 and T'Pols catsuits are in universe. Why would 7, a woman obsessed with perfection and effciency wear such a thing? Its not just the boulder boobs that must eternally get in the way either, the thing that always got me were the high heels when the woman almost never sits down! Her feet must be a battlefield of blisters. And less said about a race of logical beings who only have sex every 7 years wearing catsuits the better.

Troi's costume "maybe" makes sense as she comes from a matriarchal world so maybe the male gaze is a not concept that she is familiar with, but come on, I just put more thought into that than Gene ever did.

I am not counting VOY, but something like DS9. Think about it, really. You got the black captain, the female first officer, three aliens, if we include them as main characters, Dr. Bashir is also a minority, and then Dax is also a woman, plus many more. That's the argument you're basing this on. VOY. Even on TNG, we had numerous characters like Guinan, and give Geordi this - he dated a white girl once. Why is it that interracial couples are also so rare in fiction? I do not get this.

But if we are going with diversity checkboxes, then how do you handle this? Do you just try and make it proportional? Proportional to what population statistics? The United States, Europe, elsewhere? And if it goes against the real-life numbers, do you try to explore how that works? It implies an inherently bigoted caste system in-universe. Like we have today, and right then, you see, is the potential for the story to be derailed for politics, as we've seen lately.

I don't get why it's so hard to just focus on a good story. I think in the absence of quality story, with lots of studios just doubling down with proven formulas, green-lighting questionably weak scripts only on the basis they think the CGI will carry it, the politics take center stage in a way which they never have before and it becomes more noticeably smarmy because Hollywood has always gone left. To the hard-right reactionaries, I don't get how it's a surprise at all. Many of their heroes think this way.

Again, I blame increasing tribalism and rising depression as a result. I remarked on this in one of my earlier posts, where I asked if the age of heroes was dead. Do you ever see any protagonists like we'd had from the mid heading into the late 20th century, and even to a degree the early aughts? You only get that with superheroes, not SF, which is probably why that movie genre has exploded. The general conceit was that our lower brain tricks us, our animal instincts are innately awful, the worst thing we can succumb to, but we can always rise above it to achieve a greater ideal, a greater good, a greater goal, and a greater harmony for all. A hero of light. We don't have those in SF anymore. Captain Kirk's speech about how we don't have to kill today. Luke's boundless optimism and faith he has in his fallen father. Captain Picard's morals, and Captain Sheridan's charisma and determination. Again, you just do not see those anymore, at all. At least not from the SF genre.

And it is precisely because the big movers and shakers in Hollywood are leftists, depressed as we are, where we don't think we can do better and have a bright future laid out if we can just overcome our lower instincts, because so many are not doing that, and so, they wind up over-emphasizing it in their rushed corporate products. No one has faith in us anymore, we're right back to thinking we will all die before the century ends, but now the paradigm has shifted with CGI as the backbone to the height of corporate hubris and lazy excesses. Like, you know, LFODH - which had Detective McClane crash a car into a helicopter. We're a society that's given up on ourselves, and it shows in everything we do.

[Link8909]

I fail to see why a show needs perfect 50.50 gender, race and sexuality division, mainly because real life isn't that and it should be obvious that it isn't. The human race would not be 8 billion strong if gays numbered anywhere near that.

Other than that though, I find myself agreeing with GreyIce. Even accepting half a century of cultural advancement, which imo only TOS and early TNG can really use as an excuse, Trek's claim to be diverse is a joke.

And even at the time I remember people remarking how ridiculous 7 of 9 and T'Pols catsuits are in universe. Why would 7, a woman obsessed with perfection and effciency wear such a thing? Its not just the boulder boobs that must eternally get in the way either, the thing that always got me were the high heels when the woman almost never sits down! Her feet must be a battlefield of blisters. And less said about a race of logical beings who only have sex every 7 years wearing catsuits the better.

Troi's costume "maybe" makes sense as she comes from a matriarchal world so maybe the male gaze is a not concept that she is familiar with, but come on, I just put more thought into that than Gene ever did.

I am not counting VOY, but something like DS9. Think about it, really. You got the black captain, the female first officer, three aliens, if we include them as main characters, Dr. Bashir is also a minority, and then Dax is also a woman, plus many more. That's the argument you're basing this on. VOY. Even on TNG, we had numerous characters like Guinan, and give Geordi this - he dated a white girl once. Why is it that interracial couples are also so rare in fiction? I do not get this.

But if we are going with diversity checkboxes, then how do you handle this? Do you just try and make it proportional? Proportional to what population statistics? The United States, Europe, elsewhere? And if it goes against the real-life numbers, do you try to explore how that works? It implies an inherently bigoted caste system in-universe. Like we have today, and right then, you see, is the potential for the story to be derailed for politics, as we've seen lately.

I don't get why it's so hard to just focus on a good story. I think in the absence of quality story, with lots of studios just doubling down with proven formulas, green-lighting questionably weak scripts only on the basis they think the CGI will carry it, the politics take center stage in a way which they never have before and it becomes more noticeably smarmy because Hollywood has always gone left. To the hard-right reactionaries, I don't get how it's a surprise at all. Many of their heroes think this way.

Again, I blame increasing tribalism and rising depression as a result. I remarked on this in one of my earlier posts, where I asked if the age of heroes was dead. Do you ever see any protagonists like we'd had from the mid heading into the late 20th century, and even to a degree the early aughts? You only get that with superheroes, not SF, which is probably why that movie genre has exploded. The general conceit was that our lower brain tricks us, our animal instincts are innately awful, the worst thing we can succumb to, but we can always rise above it to achieve a greater ideal, a greater good, a greater goal, and a greater harmony for all. A hero of light. We don't have those in SF anymore. Captain Kirk's speech about how we don't have to kill today. Luke's boundless optimism and faith he has in his fallen father. Captain Picard's morals, and Captain Sheridan's charisma and determination. Again, you just do not see those anymore, at all. At least not from the SF genre.

And it is precisely because the big movers and shakers in Hollywood are leftists, depressed as we are, where we don't think we can do better and have a bright future laid out if we can just overcome our lower instincts, because so many are not doing that, and so, they wind up over-emphasizing it in their rushed corporate products. No one has faith in us anymore, we're right back to thinking we will all die before the century ends, but now the paradigm has shifted with CGI as the backbone to the height of corporate hubris and lazy excesses. Like, you know, LFODH - which had Detective McClane crash a car into a helicopter. We're a society that's given up on ourselves, and it shows in everything we do.

While its up to the individual on whether they like something or not, and peoples viewpoints and opinions will vary, and if you don’t like current shows and films that’s fare enough, I will say however its not fair to judge anything as bad based on how much focus on representation there is in it.

I can think of many resent shows and films that I personally think are great stories and have great representation in them, My Little Pony Friendship is Magic is great for female representation, created a huge fan following, and is my personal favorite feel good shows to watch, while I’ve not seen She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, it does look awesome and has great representation for same sex relationships and women, and of course Black Panther which is fantastic and is brilliant on its representation on African Americans.

I’ll say that you are right on increasing tribalism and rising depression, however like I’ve said before, I personally would say that it is because of YouTube click-bait channels, Twitter and other types of eco-chambers that are the problem here, these type of places on the internet create this “tribalism” mentality through gate-keeping tactics, and promote fear, hate and ignorance amongst people in fandoms that eventually will cause depression, after all, if enough people say something is bad, eventually people will start believing it, and of course the over hyperbolization that is the internet thanks to being able to say anything with complete anonymity has insured that these kind of topics, no matter how civil it is discussed, is highjacked by these type of people and blown out of proportion,

And of course we all do believe the shows and film we grew up with are great, we grew up with them and will always hold them in high regards, so when we see newer things based on are favorite shows and films, we hold the newer things to a high standard, and anything that people find as a problem in these newer things are going to be more glaring to us, even if the older things we like did the same things.

My general mentality when it comes to any new shows of films based on things that I am a fan of like Star Trek is to accept it for what it is, defiantly point out if there are things to improve on, but have some restraint on said criticism, and also to celebrate what it does right, and remember that someone else will be watching it for the first time, and will lead to more people getting into the thing that I like and ensure that it will endure for future generations.

Also, to get back on the topic of unpopular opinions, Picard’s morals in Star Trek Picard are as strong as they were in The Next Generation, he may not be a Captain, he may not have his crew, and he may be nearing the end of his life, but he always stand for what’s right no matter what.

Also also, as I said here, I’m a fan of My Little Pony Friendship is Magic. (Mic Drop)

[McAvoy]

As far as Diversity Check boxes. Yeah I get it. Check all the boxes within the show to fit the liberal ideals of diversity.

Problem is that alot of these checkboxes have been filled already. First female captain was actually a black captain. So many female captains through Trek too. What about Asians or Middle Eastern captains? First Captain we saw that wasn't black or white was the Captain of the Yorktown. I don't even think he was given a name. First Asian captain we saw was I believe Sulu himself.

So we got a full on screen showing of a gay couple. Big deal, but it is for Trek.

Hell we got our first female officer in her 20's in a starting role that is chubby and not have the classic skinny/athletic type.

Check boxes are checked. OK. Cool. At what point do you stop? Yeah so Trek has its first black female lead, that matters how? Trek is in a unique position where it has multiple shows where you can place 'insert race' and 'insert sex' into the lead.

So if Section 31 is ever made (doubt it) it will check the female Asian lead box too.

At what point do these boxes just end up being the equivalent of 'token black guy'.

[Link8909]

As far as Diversity Check boxes. Yeah I get it. Check all the boxes within the show to fit the liberal ideals of diversity.

Problem is that alot of these checkboxes have been filled already. First female captain was actually a black captain. So many female captains through Trek too. What about Asians or Middle Eastern captains? First Captain we saw that wasn't black or white was the Captain of the Yorktown. I don't even think he was given a name. First Asian captain we saw was I believe Sulu himself.

So we got a full on screen showing of a gay couple. Big deal, but it is for Trek.

Hell we got our first female officer in her 20's in a starting role that is chubby and not have the classic skinny/athletic type.

Check boxes are checked. OK. Cool. At what point do you stop? Yeah so Trek has its first black female lead, that matters how? Trek is in a unique position where it has multiple shows where you can place 'insert race' and 'insert sex' into the lead.

So if Section 31 is ever made (doubt it) it will check the female Asian lead box too.

At what point do these boxes just end up being the equivalent of 'token black guy'.

I think it matters to the people that these new shows and films try to represent, so we can understand and learn the issues that marginalized people go through and not ignoring them, so we don't perpetuate harmful stereotypes or continue century old social stigmas, so the young kids who are now growing up with these new shows and films or other people who are just getting into it have more, new and diverse heroes to look up too and relate too.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Diversity's not a checklist lol.

[clearspira]

Diversity's not a checklist lol.

Yes it is. It shouldn't be, but it is.