Noting the date

[Nealithi]

So I was just discussing things with my father. Who is a bright man. Not perfect but brighter than he thinks he is. And he commented about how SJW's are tearing down statues and now they want to go after Washington and Francis Scott Key. I have nothing to back that. But he watches the news on these things more than I do.
What is note worthy was he predicts that when they finish with or run out of statues, they will turn to burning books. . . On hearing this I hoped to God he is wrong. As it sounds so cyclical.

But I wanted to note the date publicly in the event he turns out to be right.

And since this is supposed to be a discussion. What do you think of the prediction? And do you have any predictions of your own concerning recent events?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Sadly the general conservative climate isn't really cognizant of what values the left operates on.

The reasoning behind taking down confederate statues is unavoidably a topic of racism since you can't really remove that from the discussion about the confederates in the civil war.

That's why statues are actually being taken down by mandate. Not by SJWs on Twitter. Mayors and councilmembers agree that there is something inherently problematic by having confederate statues. Now of course people will protest for all types of matters. Anything from advocating racism to criticizing government is allowed legally, and yes people are probably coming for the heads of Washington etc.

I think if it bothers you so much, then go ahead and protest for Washington to remain up. But you should actually join the discussion past social media circuses or getting uncomfortable with people in the streets doing w/ever.

[Rocketboy1313]

I always find it ironic when people bring up burning books.
The most iconic image of the Nazis burning books is taken from the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft
An institution that studied queer, homosexual, and trans behavior. It was part of the Nazi purge of homosexuals and the quintessential example of Machismo in Umberto Eco's 14 points about fascism.
http://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html

For fucks sake, we've already had book burnings and bannings in this country, the Christians did not care for Harry Potter, remember? Remember rock and roll being demonic? What books do you envision being burned?

Guys, the statues ARE THE REVISIONIST HISTORY. They are the glorification and white washing of figures in our history that were often various flavors of bad, or had their imagery co-opted and tied into images of bad, like that god awful statue of Teddy Roosevelt they are taking down which has him flanked by a native american and a black guy like they are his subjects... Very weird choice unless you are trying to send some kind of message.
https://abc7ny.com/theodore-roosevelt-statue-nyc-why-is-roosevelts-being-removed-teddy-american-museum-of-natural-history/6260686/

The removal of these memorials is not covering up the truth or pretending something bad didn't happen, it is about revealing the bad that these statues were put up to glorify, it is about exposing the truth.

I HEARTILY DISLIKE MANY PRESIDENTS and other government leaders because they were awful people, but at the same time I put up with the Jefferson memorial because he is a foundational figure in American history, just like Ivan the Terrible is to Russia. But when you look at Confederate Leadership, or the god damned KKK... They are not foundational figures to the country, they are villains, they should be vilified, not memorialized.

I don't care if you want to believe your ancestors fought for glory or states rights or whatever misinformed bullshit you tell yourself, they fought for slavery and the social order that kept people as slaves. That is what they fought for. And those monuments are inappropriate.
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/civil-war-documentary-filmmaker-ken-burns-calls-for-confederate-statues-to-be-removed-theyre-an-attempt-to-rewrite-history-by-white-supremacists/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

And you know what, there might come a day when the United States has to declare some kind of new year zero for the country. That we acknowledge that we have moved so far beyond what the writers of the constitution envisioned and are so different from them morally, ethically, and legally that we have to disown them. That we have to say this is no longer a country of slavery and genocide, that we have to say that the country started in 1864 or 1946 or whatever and just take down the statues to Jefferson and Jackson because they were bastards and we don't want them anymore. Leave them to the history books like all the other barbarians.

[LittleRaven]

Guys, the statues ARE THE REVISIONIST HISTORY.

Really?

https://www.channel3000.com/protesters-explain-why-they-tore-down-statues-at-state-capitol/

Madison police say a group of about 200 to 300 people took control of a towing vehicle and tore down the Forward and Hans Christian Heg statues at the State Capitol overnight.

What history was Madison trying to revise by honoring Hans Heg? The history of abolition?

Now, don't get me wrong, I understand the point you're making. There's no doubt that many confederate monuments were put up primarily to remind people of the then-dominant power structure. But let's not pretend that the mob is judicious or wise in how it handles things, and it can be very difficult to predict where the avalanche will stop.

[Darth Wedgius]

If the authoritarian left keeps tearing down status, can the Taliban complain of cultural appropriation?

[TGLS]

Guys, the statues ARE THE REVISIONIST HISTORY.

Really?

https://www.channel3000.com/protesters-explain-why-they-tore-down-statues-at-state-capitol/

Madison police say a group of about 200 to 300 people took control of a towing vehicle and tore down the Forward and Hans Christian Heg statues at the State Capitol overnight.

What history was Madison trying to revise by honoring Hans Heg? The history of abolition?

Now, don't get me wrong, I understand the point you're making. There's no doubt that many confederate monuments were put up primarily to remind people of the then-dominant power structure. But let's not pretend that the mob is judicious or wise in how it handles things, and it can be very difficult to predict where the avalanche will stop.

I'm not going to pretend to defend tearing down the Heg statue (heck, I'm not too sure about some of the other statues either). On the other hand, I can still find it understandable; see a statue of some guy in a civil war uniform, while you're pissed about some obviously racist act? I can imagine that all the anger and frustration, with the meme that there are Confederate war memorials everywhere, just makes one see red and pull the thing down.

[LittleRaven]

Except that's not what happened. Read the statements of the protesters. They knew exactly what the statues were, and they tore them down not because they are symbols of the Confederacy, but because they are symbols of hope and progress that "Madison has failed to live up to."

And I suppose there is perhaps a certain sin in failing to achieve your dreams. Then again, if you succeed...maybe you need better dreams.

[LittleRaven]

If the authoritarian left keeps tearing down status, can the Taliban complain of cultural appropriation?

Hardly. This practice is documented to AT LEAST to the ancient Egyptians, and frankly, I suspect it goes back much farther than that.

Humanity is infinitely adaptable, but certain patterns emerge.

[GreyICE]

Humans are predictable. Someone builds a statue to tell everyone how great they are, someone else goes “you’re anything but” and rips it down. How many Lenin statues were smashed? Saddam Hussain statues? Statues are a bunch of money spent to glorify yourself. Tearing one down says “we don’t think you should be glorified.”

I’m just wondering where the right wing handwringing was when Lenin statues were being torn down. Didn’t they share images of Iraqis tearing down Saddam statues?

Or are they just trying to say “yeah, well slavery was awesome, and should be glorified”?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Humans are predictable.

Oh yeah waht am I gonna do next then?