Remember how the Mainstream Media said they won't be coming for Jefferson and Washington Next?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Well yeah they tended more towards Lawful Evil.

Why can't I claim all slave owners were evil? It's like saying "all torturers are evil" or "all child murderers are evil".

[Dragon Ball Fan]

Well yeah they tended more towards Lawful Evil.

Why can't I claim all slave owners were evil? It's like saying "all torturers are evil" or "all child murderers are evil".

because slavery was sadly, an important part of life back then. evil is doing something you know is objectively wrong and not caring with no benefit to yourself besides maybe a sadistic rush.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

even if slave owners weren't punished for mistreating slaves, some were undoubtedly worse then others and some were better then others. slavery is still wrong but you can't claim all slave owners were Always Chaotic Evil.

It's not like he's necessarily incorrect or false, but it's dubious to get too deep with these kind of generalizing claims either way.

You know the facts. It was indubitably wrong. The characterizing of particular families or their heads opposite other families doing the same horrible thing or hardlining a specific level where families are more or less contemptible is missing the forest for the trees. This is generally an issue with the left as it gets more left, and it's imo often a jagged back and forth of facts and considerations to assess the matter proportionately. But like in the case of slavery though, these peoples direct actions were innately objectifying people in the most serious of offenses. That's what everybody was doing for starters.

And AGAIN, if you were for life committed to indentured servitude and learned (or never learned) that it's wrong, how does that change the dynamic between you and that slave owner? Whether or not you found it in your heart to forgive them, it's not only understandable but expected that that person would have been adversely subjugated based on deliberate actions of the other person. At what point is sympathy for these people necessary?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Dragon, I think your definition is too narrow. Evil is as evil does. If you commit evil acts then you are evil. You don't have to be a mustache-twirling saturday morning cartoon villain or a lip-smacking sadist to be a bad person.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well to the extent that we're talking about one of the most contemptible things in existence, this is a little more critical in nature than just being bad.

Also though, really importantly, it's not as if it wasn't known by anyone that slavery was bad. Like how much effort are you trying to give out to establish a veil of ignorance influencing how you're to personally feel about them? (edit: or was this more about benevolence?)

[Dragon Ball Fan]

Well to the extent that we're talking about one of the most contemptible things in existence, this is a little more critical in nature than just being bad.

Also though, really importantly, it's not as if it wasn't known by anyone that slavery was bad. Like how much effort are you trying to give out to establish a veil of ignorance influencing how you're to personally feel about them?

perhaps the slave owners in the Civil War era ha no excuse, slavery as an institution was dying at that point, anyway but before that, it was the backbone of the economy so, I'm not entirely comfortable calling any given slave owner in the revolutionary war era or before pure evil.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well to the extent that we're talking about one of the most contemptible things in existence, this is a little more critical in nature than just being bad.

Also though, really importantly, it's not as if it wasn't known by anyone that slavery was bad. Like how much effort are you trying to give out to establish a veil of ignorance influencing how you're to personally feel about them?

perhaps the slave owners in the Civil War era ha no excuse, slavery as an institution was dying at that point, anyway but before that, it was the backbone of the economy so, I'm not entirely comfortable calling any given slave owner in the revolutionary war era or before pure evil.

What would you say about the toxicity in that household?

[GreyICE]

perhaps the slave owners in the Civil War era ha no excuse, slavery as an institution was dying at that point, anyway but before that, it was the backbone of the economy so, I'm not entirely comfortable calling any given slave owner in the revolutionary war era or before pure evil.

You know, in the "Children's television" thread you argued for moral absolutism in children's television to pass on good moral messages. Ignoring for a second that one happened to real human beings, and one is a silly show about magical talking ponies, how the HELL do you reconcile these two positions:

most of the main characters get away with doing some stupid shit, like Twilight brainwashing the entire town in "Lesson Zero" or Spike causing the disaster in "Inspiration Manifestation" by giving Rarity a spell book that he had to have known was dangerous.

Trixie knowingly bought a dangerous magical artifact and took over Ponyville and enslaved it's citizens.

Starlight Glimmer, even if we ignore the alternate apocalyptic timelines, is still guilty of running an abusive cult with all that entails and kidnapping royalty.

Tempest Shadow and the rest of the Storm King's army that reform in the movie, are still guilty of war crimes but are invited to do the party at the end with no problem. also, the one side character who arguably did the right thing, gets punished when her mother comes to get her but not the actual war criminals.

Like on the one hand you think the magical talking ponies get off too easy in their cartoon, but in the other you can't unequivocally condemn real life slave owners?

Man I sincerely do not understand you.

[Dragon Ball Fan]

perhaps the slave owners in the Civil War era ha no excuse, slavery as an institution was dying at that point, anyway but before that, it was the backbone of the economy so, I'm not entirely comfortable calling any given slave owner in the revolutionary war era or before pure evil.

You know, in the "Children's television" thread you argued for moral absolutism in children's television to pass on good moral messages. Ignoring for a second that one happened to real human beings, and one is a silly show about magical talking ponies, how the HELL do you reconcile these two positions:

most of the main characters get away with doing some stupid shit, like Twilight brainwashing the entire town in "Lesson Zero" or Spike causing the disaster in "Inspiration Manifestation" by giving Rarity a spell book that he had to have known was dangerous.

Trixie knowingly bought a dangerous magical artifact and took over Ponyville and enslaved it's citizens.

Starlight Glimmer, even if we ignore the alternate apocalyptic timelines, is still guilty of running an abusive cult with all that entails and kidnapping royalty.

Tempest Shadow and the rest of the Storm King's army that reform in the movie, are still guilty of war crimes but are invited to do the party at the end with no problem. also, the one side character who arguably did the right thing, gets punished when her mother comes to get her but not the actual war criminals.

Like on the one hand you think the magical talking ponies get off too easy in their cartoon, but in the other you can't unequivocally condemn real life slave owners?

Man I sincerely do not understand you.

the difference is that kids shows teach morals for the here and now, people in the past, with certain exceptions, didn't know what they were doing was wrong.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I'm pretty sure there was a system of knowledge around during the Revolutionary War that could clue people in. Like, it could only be so normal to a certain point.