Remember how the Mainstream Media said they won't be coming for Jefferson and Washington Next?

[Dragon Ball Fan]

I'm pretty sure there was a system of knowledge around during the Revolutionary War that could clue people in. Like, it could only be so normal to a certain point.

maybe I'm being a little to lenient on people from the past but still not sure. I saw a documentary that said George Washington and his slave were BFFs.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I'm pretty sure there was a system of knowledge around during the Revolutionary War that could clue people in. Like, it could only be so normal to a certain point.

maybe I'm being a little to lenient on people from the past but still not sure. I saw a documentary that said George Washington and his slave were BFFs.

Yeah it's just something that we don't know that shapes the landscape a tad. I mean that's just between knowing what people were doing was bad and trying them so to speak in your own court system.

Certainly measures of contemptibility are nothing but controversial.

Like really though, I get feeling dirty trying to just rationalize this stuff. Like to what end are you sympathizing, again?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Well to the extent that we're talking about one of the most contemptible things in existence, this is a little more critical in nature than just being bad.

Also though, really importantly, it's not as if it wasn't known by anyone that slavery was bad. Like how much effort are you trying to give out to establish a veil of ignorance influencing how you're to personally feel about them?

perhaps the slave owners in the Civil War era ha no excuse, slavery as an institution was dying at that point, anyway but before that, it was the backbone of the economy so, I'm not entirely comfortable calling any given slave owner in the revolutionary war era or before pure evil.

I'm not saying they were pure evil. I'm saying they were still evil, with a lowercase e.

People can read their children bedtime stories, and brush the dog, and then go out and do horrible, evil things to other people.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

perhaps the slave owners in the Civil War era ha no excuse, slavery as an institution was dying at that point, anyway but before that, it was the backbone of the economy so, I'm not entirely comfortable calling any given slave owner in the revolutionary war era or before pure evil.

You know, in the "Children's television" thread you argued for moral absolutism in children's television to pass on good moral messages. Ignoring for a second that one happened to real human beings, and one is a silly show about magical talking ponies, how the HELL do you reconcile these two positions:

most of the main characters get away with doing some stupid shit, like Twilight brainwashing the entire town in "Lesson Zero" or Spike causing the disaster in "Inspiration Manifestation" by giving Rarity a spell book that he had to have known was dangerous.

Trixie knowingly bought a dangerous magical artifact and took over Ponyville and enslaved it's citizens.

Starlight Glimmer, even if we ignore the alternate apocalyptic timelines, is still guilty of running an abusive cult with all that entails and kidnapping royalty.

Tempest Shadow and the rest of the Storm King's army that reform in the movie, are still guilty of war crimes but are invited to do the party at the end with no problem. also, the one side character who arguably did the right thing, gets punished when her mother comes to get her but not the actual war criminals.

Like on the one hand you think the magical talking ponies get off too easy in their cartoon, but in the other you can't unequivocally condemn real life slave owners?

Man I sincerely do not understand you.

the difference is that kids shows teach morals for the here and now, people in the past, with certain exceptions, didn't know what they were doing was wrong.

People in the past know right from wrong too. There are limits to cultural relativism. Why do you think there was a huge abolitionist movement?

People wouldn't make huge pseudo-science movements and cultural mythology to rationalize the institution of slavery if they didn't know it was wrong. Look up drapetomania. They made up a whole mental illness to explain away the fact that slaves don't like being enslaved.

[Dragon Ball Fan]

perhaps the slave owners in the Civil War era ha no excuse, slavery as an institution was dying at that point, anyway but before that, it was the backbone of the economy so, I'm not entirely comfortable calling any given slave owner in the revolutionary war era or before pure evil.

You know, in the "Children's television" thread you argued for moral absolutism in children's television to pass on good moral messages. Ignoring for a second that one happened to real human beings, and one is a silly show about magical talking ponies, how the HELL do you reconcile these two positions:

most of the main characters get away with doing some stupid shit, like Twilight brainwashing the entire town in "Lesson Zero" or Spike causing the disaster in "Inspiration Manifestation" by giving Rarity a spell book that he had to have known was dangerous.

Trixie knowingly bought a dangerous magical artifact and took over Ponyville and enslaved it's citizens.

Starlight Glimmer, even if we ignore the alternate apocalyptic timelines, is still guilty of running an abusive cult with all that entails and kidnapping royalty.

Tempest Shadow and the rest of the Storm King's army that reform in the movie, are still guilty of war crimes but are invited to do the party at the end with no problem. also, the one side character who arguably did the right thing, gets punished when her mother comes to get her but not the actual war criminals.

Like on the one hand you think the magical talking ponies get off too easy in their cartoon, but in the other you can't unequivocally condemn real life slave owners?

Man I sincerely do not understand you.

the difference is that kids shows teach morals for the here and now, people in the past, with certain exceptions, didn't know what they were doing was wrong.

People in the past know right from wrong too. There are limits to cultural relativism. Why do you think there was a huge abolitionist movement?

People wouldn't make huge pseudo-science movements and cultural mythology to rationalize the institution of slavery if they didn't know it was wrong. Look up drapetomania. They made up a whole mental illness to explain away the fact that slaves don't like being enslaved.

thinking about it, I mostly agree with you but I still can't rationalize calling every single slave owner who ever existed evil. my benchmarks for evil are still Hitler and H.H. Holmes, real life mustache twirlers.

[ProfessorDetective]

perhaps the slave owners in the Civil War era ha no excuse, slavery as an institution was dying at that point, anyway but before that, it was the backbone of the economy so, I'm not entirely comfortable calling any given slave owner in the revolutionary war era or before pure evil.

You know, in the "Children's television" thread you argued for moral absolutism in children's television to pass on good moral messages. Ignoring for a second that one happened to real human beings, and one is a silly show about magical talking ponies, how the HELL do you reconcile these two positions:

most of the main characters get away with doing some stupid shit, like Twilight brainwashing the entire town in "Lesson Zero" or Spike causing the disaster in "Inspiration Manifestation" by giving Rarity a spell book that he had to have known was dangerous.

Trixie knowingly bought a dangerous magical artifact and took over Ponyville and enslaved it's citizens.

Starlight Glimmer, even if we ignore the alternate apocalyptic timelines, is still guilty of running an abusive cult with all that entails and kidnapping royalty.

Tempest Shadow and the rest of the Storm King's army that reform in the movie, are still guilty of war crimes but are invited to do the party at the end with no problem. also, the one side character who arguably did the right thing, gets punished when her mother comes to get her but not the actual war criminals.

Like on the one hand you think the magical talking ponies get off too easy in their cartoon, but in the other you can't unequivocally condemn real life slave owners?

Man I sincerely do not understand you.

the difference is that kids shows teach morals for the here and now, people in the past, with certain exceptions, didn't know what they were doing was wrong.

People in the past know right from wrong too. There are limits to cultural relativism. Why do you think there was a huge abolitionist movement?

People wouldn't make huge pseudo-science movements and cultural mythology to rationalize the institution of slavery if they didn't know it was wrong. Look up drapetomania. They made up a whole mental illness to explain away the fact that slaves don't like being enslaved.

thinking about it, I mostly agree with you but I still can't rationalize calling every single slave owner who ever existed evil. my benchmarks for evil are still Hitler and H.H. Holmes, real life mustache twirlers.

Can we at least call them 'bad people'?

[Dragon Ball Fan]

perhaps the slave owners in the Civil War era ha no excuse, slavery as an institution was dying at that point, anyway but before that, it was the backbone of the economy so, I'm not entirely comfortable calling any given slave owner in the revolutionary war era or before pure evil.

You know, in the "Children's television" thread you argued for moral absolutism in children's television to pass on good moral messages. Ignoring for a second that one happened to real human beings, and one is a silly show about magical talking ponies, how the HELL do you reconcile these two positions:

most of the main characters get away with doing some stupid shit, like Twilight brainwashing the entire town in "Lesson Zero" or Spike causing the disaster in "Inspiration Manifestation" by giving Rarity a spell book that he had to have known was dangerous.

Trixie knowingly bought a dangerous magical artifact and took over Ponyville and enslaved it's citizens.

Starlight Glimmer, even if we ignore the alternate apocalyptic timelines, is still guilty of running an abusive cult with all that entails and kidnapping royalty.

Tempest Shadow and the rest of the Storm King's army that reform in the movie, are still guilty of war crimes but are invited to do the party at the end with no problem. also, the one side character who arguably did the right thing, gets punished when her mother comes to get her but not the actual war criminals.

Like on the one hand you think the magical talking ponies get off too easy in their cartoon, but in the other you can't unequivocally condemn real life slave owners?

Man I sincerely do not understand you.

the difference is that kids shows teach morals for the here and now, people in the past, with certain exceptions, didn't know what they were doing was wrong.

People in the past know right from wrong too. There are limits to cultural relativism. Why do you think there was a huge abolitionist movement?

People wouldn't make huge pseudo-science movements and cultural mythology to rationalize the institution of slavery if they didn't know it was wrong. Look up drapetomania. They made up a whole mental illness to explain away the fact that slaves don't like being enslaved.

thinking about it, I mostly agree with you but I still can't rationalize calling every single slave owner who ever existed evil. my benchmarks for evil are still Hitler and H.H. Holmes, real life mustache twirlers.

Can we at least call them 'bad people'?

some of them, sure and maybe in a sense, all of them but you don't become a bad/evil person just by doing bad things, it depends on your nature as a person regardless of actions as well.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

some of them, sure and maybe in a sense, all of them but you don't become a bad/evil person just by doing bad things, it depends on your nature as a person regardless of actions as well.

And again, I think this subject is a case where the collective/institutional/communal really does kind of bleed down to the individuals in spite of context. That's just in my opinion or w/ever, whereas I've had more issues with collective/individual implications over the last few years.

In a day of viral exposure having impact, court of public opinion apologies, and social media cultivating a modern day Woodstock festival political movement, I know very well how people would enact any influence they could back in that day despite it being part of conventional standards. I mean, look at them today and it's a big rug-sweeping game, so how would it be any different if they were there back then? There were probably liberal towns saying "fuck those guys let's blast them over the periodicals produced at the local papermill."

[GreyICE]

the difference is that kids shows teach morals for the here and now, people in the past, with certain exceptions, didn't know what they were doing was wrong.

This sort of shit is just dishonest crappola. They knew enslaving other humans was wrong. They just didn't care. Look at how many hoops they had to jump through. The entire war was because they were afraid the north would abolish slavery. Why? Because it was fucking wrong. People had been writing anti-slavery tracts and fighting slavery since before Christopher Columbus discovered America.

People had every bit the moral autonomy they did today Mark Twain grew up in the South in the 1800s. He was anti-racist and feminist, fighting for black people and women to be considered equal. Did he know it was wrong? Fucking yes, obviously he did. There's a reason he's the greatest American author (Sorry Poe). Mark Twain was hardly alone? So how come slave owners and overseers, those who benefited and profited from the enslavement of other human beings, not have known it was wrong?

They didn't want to, that's why. They could have. They didn't want to. They chose to support rape, murder, beatings, torture, and a short life of brutal labor for other human beings. They could have done otherwise. They didn't.

Yes, that makes them evil.

[Dragon Ball Fan]

the difference is that kids shows teach morals for the here and now, people in the past, with certain exceptions, didn't know what they were doing was wrong.

This sort of shit is just dishonest crappola. They knew enslaving other humans was wrong. They just didn't care. Look at how many hoops they had to jump through. The entire war was because they were afraid the north would abolish slavery. Why? Because it was fucking wrong. People had been writing anti-slavery tracts and fighting slavery since before Christopher Columbus discovered America.

People had every bit the moral autonomy they did today Mark Twain grew up in the South in the 1800s. He was anti-racist and feminist, fighting for black people and women to be considered equal. Did he know it was wrong? Fucking yes, obviously he did. There's a reason he's the greatest American author (Sorry Poe). Mark Twain was hardly alone? So how come slave owners and overseers, those who benefited and profited from the enslavement of other human beings, not have known it was wrong?

They didn't want to, that's why. They could have. They didn't want to. They chose to support rape, murder, beatings, torture, and a short life of brutal labor for other human beings. They could have done otherwise. They didn't.

Yes, that makes them evil.

I would agree with you but there is some serious cognitive dissidence going on for me, like a sources I've seen/read say George Washington told his slaves to be freed after he died and one was his best friend.