The Star Wars Sequels Erased?

[Captain Crimson]

I think Star Wars is going to go the same path as DC and Marvel, with lots of different stories each in their own little continuity with little or nothing to do with the original trilogy, beyond the premise.

Like how Batman: The Animated Series has nothing to do with the Adam West series, aside from both being 'batman.'

Or how the X-men films had no connection to the animated series.

That could be the path eventually. The problem right now is that they have poor management to make that a reality and would require them to both understand the older lore and have a healthy respect for it, which I'm skeptical of anyone there past the old guard like Mr. Chee and Mr. Hidalgo.

The rumor, from Overlord DVD, had also said they just plan to toss the sequels into Legends, which would officially make that the trash bin for Lucasfilm. So I am very skeptical about that. Contrary to online opinion, while some people there are liars who are not straight with fans, I don't think LF has that kind of rabid hate for SW. Though I've always hated the Veil and the World Between Worlds since for me, it feels like a cheap story tool that will lead to further dilution and dumbing down of the lore. I mean, think about it. With the fans the DC has right now, to throw the ST into the Legends trash bin would just alienate both the older EU fans as well as DC fans. It would be exactly what EU fans had gone through in 2014 for DC fans, and for EU fans it's just one more blow to the world we love.

My suspicion is that people like Mr. Filoni want to do just this, since they are the kind of creators who just like to do their own thing and don't like being tied down by anything, and in this case, Mr. Lucas, continuity, the EU, and what have you. Seems more like his style of approach than Ms. Kennedy. And tragically, the fandom menace still gives him a pass while she is satan. So there's that strain of sexism in the fandom going on right now.

And besides, since this came from Overlord DVD, he's been wrong before. He reported Ms. Kennedy was gone and she was extended, The leaks for TROS were not him, that was the redditor named JediPaxis, but he ran it as his. Even he says to take it with a grain of salt.

I can buy that there is sexism aimed at her, but she is pretty sexist herself so it all evens out. She declared war on the male fans with all of that Force is Female bullshit and did so intentionally. And if it wasn't an intentional act, if making 95% of the male characters in the sequels evil, fuck-ups, or just generally secondary to the plot was an accident, then I would hate to see what a ''big whoops'' from her looks like.

And if anyone wants to argue that, I ask that you answer me but one question: name me a male character in the sequels that I am meant to look up to and admire.

Luke is a coward. Han is back to his old ways again. Snoke/Palpatine is evil. Kylo Ren is a murderer. Hux is comic relief. Poe is chewed out by everyone. Finn ultimately achieves very little of actual substance.

Now lets contrast: Rey is the ultimate heroine. Leia is the selfless leader of the Resistance. Holdo was written to be in the right even though she wasn't. Rose was clearly Batman to Finn's Robin. The yellow toad woman from TFA whatever-her-name-was is basically Yoda.

My comment was geared more towards this double standard I see among TCW fandom and the casual fans. They consistently appear to rationalize away any biases for Mr. Filoni and give him a pass while going after everyone involved from her to Mr. Abrams and Mr. Johnson but not him. I think a lot of it is a carefully crafted and misleading public persona, that he was Mr. Lucas's direct protege, and that he cares for the older lore and fans, claims easily challenged if one did a little bit of digging.

I mean, really, all the complaints you could level at the DC, the same could be said for TCW and any other work Mr. Filoni has done. I don't get why people are so okay with the derailing of the character for Barriss Offee in having her be the one to frame Ahsoka, that is totally antithetical to the portrayal from the older multimedia project when she was on Felucia and killed during Order 66, and somehow complain about Jake Skywalker? It's only a mild exaggeration, and I'm not even joking here. Continuity doesn't matter to Mr. Filoni and he will be the first to tell you and that's one of the complaints against TLJ, that they fundamentally misunderstand the lore. How is this a shock to anyone who's consistently done research on and followed the older CW multimedia project and TCW? That boat sailed in 2008.

Also, we know from the behind-the-scenes stuff Mr. Filoni was involved in the direct day-to-day planning stages for the way the sequels would go. Mr. Filoni wanted to shift the focus from Luke to Leia, citing matriarchy and subverting patriarchal heroes, that he wants rebirth and healing. I mean, sounds a lot like the themes that went into TLJ, to me. Luke milking a space otter? Yeah, that would be the matriarchy. Luke failed, while Rey stands strong, and tells him not to give up. If you have no issue with the lore that TCW threw out, you should have no problems with all the lore that TLJ threw out, which is no doubt why it's extremely polarizing, even to fans here, and why I'm more inclined to want to give TLJ, despite how frustrating it is for me, a chance more than the casuals to the older EU. TCW fans do not amount to EU fans.

People rationalize it saying he's bending knee because he's scared he'd be fired. I don't think that's the case. For one thing, LF's priorities are plain as day to me. They want a big TV and movies empire. The publishing industry is taking a pounding due to COVID-19 and the proliferation of mass media, the way it always has, and I don't think his position is particularly threatened, since he's an important figure in the shaping of the direction DSW goes, he's in practically every area of production in some cases. Now for somebody like Mr. Zahn I'd say that applies more to him than to Mr. Filoni because his work always has been writing SW novels, and LF is not interested in books. The new EU feels like it's entirely filler and entirely skippable. Mr. Zahn said prior to 2012, a reboot is a bad idea. That video no longer exists and following 2012 he bowed in and jumped on board the reboot train. He knows who is buttering his bread.

People like Mr. Karpyshyn have reached out with ideas for more TOR, or a Darth Zannah book, and has been rejected. What's the difference? He's too "small-time." And he won't bend knee.

My larger point being, if you're going to call out the DSW for what it's done, you have to go back much earlier and see this phenomenon isn't new. Just because Mr. Filoni is the best of the DSW writers isn't saying much, since he was kind of mediocre back when there were still many EU authors adding to the mythos, and his great successes came from grifting off Mr. Lucas and the older EU stories. It's entirely unoriginal. The few new things Mr. Filoni has to his name, strike me as bizarre and in many cases, not well thought out. Like time travel. The management approach LF has in ignoring the older fans is one he subscribes to as well. There's really fundamentally no difference between Ms. Kennedy saying that there is no source material and him calling the EU a well of ideas and never canon, while while true, I suspect he would overlook the same, for his piddly little show that he likes to imagine having greater importance on the scope of the franchise than it really has, since TCW was also never "canon."

Those are my thoughts. If fandom menace casuals felt that Mr. Filoni is the savior, they're going to be let down. It's just not meant to be.

[clearspira]

I think Star Wars is going to go the same path as DC and Marvel, with lots of different stories each in their own little continuity with little or nothing to do with the original trilogy, beyond the premise.

Like how Batman: The Animated Series has nothing to do with the Adam West series, aside from both being 'batman.'

Or how the X-men films had no connection to the animated series.

That could be the path eventually. The problem right now is that they have poor management to make that a reality and would require them to both understand the older lore and have a healthy respect for it, which I'm skeptical of anyone there past the old guard like Mr. Chee and Mr. Hidalgo.

The rumor, from Overlord DVD, had also said they just plan to toss the sequels into Legends, which would officially make that the trash bin for Lucasfilm. So I am very skeptical about that. Contrary to online opinion, while some people there are liars who are not straight with fans, I don't think LF has that kind of rabid hate for SW. Though I've always hated the Veil and the World Between Worlds since for me, it feels like a cheap story tool that will lead to further dilution and dumbing down of the lore. I mean, think about it. With the fans the DC has right now, to throw the ST into the Legends trash bin would just alienate both the older EU fans as well as DC fans. It would be exactly what EU fans had gone through in 2014 for DC fans, and for EU fans it's just one more blow to the world we love.

My suspicion is that people like Mr. Filoni want to do just this, since they are the kind of creators who just like to do their own thing and don't like being tied down by anything, and in this case, Mr. Lucas, continuity, the EU, and what have you. Seems more like his style of approach than Ms. Kennedy. And tragically, the fandom menace still gives him a pass while she is satan. So there's that strain of sexism in the fandom going on right now.

And besides, since this came from Overlord DVD, he's been wrong before. He reported Ms. Kennedy was gone and she was extended, The leaks for TROS were not him, that was the redditor named JediPaxis, but he ran it as his. Even he says to take it with a grain of salt.

I can buy that there is sexism aimed at her, but she is pretty sexist herself so it all evens out. She declared war on the male fans with all of that Force is Female bullshit and did so intentionally. And if it wasn't an intentional act, if making 95% of the male characters in the sequels evil, fuck-ups, or just generally secondary to the plot was an accident, then I would hate to see what a ''big whoops'' from her looks like.

And if anyone wants to argue that, I ask that you answer me but one question: name me a male character in the sequels that I am meant to look up to and admire.

Luke is a coward. Han is back to his old ways again. Snoke/Palpatine is evil. Kylo Ren is a murderer. Hux is comic relief. Poe is chewed out by everyone. Finn ultimately achieves very little of actual substance.

Now lets contrast: Rey is the ultimate heroine. Leia is the selfless leader of the Resistance. Holdo was written to be in the right even though she wasn't. Rose was clearly Batman to Finn's Robin. The yellow toad woman from TFA whatever-her-name-was is basically Yoda.

My comment was geared more towards this double standard I see among TCW fandom and the casual fans. They consistently appear to rationalize away any biases for Mr. Filoni and give him a pass while going after everyone involved from her to Mr. Abrams and Mr. Johnson but not him. I think a lot of it is a carefully crafted and misleading public persona, that he was Mr. Lucas's direct protege, and that he cares for the older lore and fans, claims easily challenged if one did a little bit of digging.

I mean, really, all the complaints you could level at the DC, the same could be said for TCW and any other work Mr. Filoni has done. I don't get why people are so okay with the derailing of the character for Barriss Offee in having her be the one to frame Ahsoka, that is totally antithetical to the portrayal from the older multimedia project when she was on Felucia and killed during Order 66, and somehow complain about Jake Skywalker? It's only a mild exaggeration, and I'm not even joking here. Continuity doesn't matter to Mr. Filoni and he will be the first to tell you and that's one of the complaints against TLJ, that they fundamentally misunderstand the lore. How is this a shock to anyone who's consistently done research on and followed the older CW multimedia project and TCW? That boat sailed in 2008.

Also, we know from the behind-the-scenes stuff Mr. Filoni was involved in the direct day-to-day planning stages for the way the sequels would go. Mr. Filoni wanted to shift the focus from Luke to Leia, citing matriarchy and subverting patriarchal heroes, that he wants rebirth and healing. I mean, sounds a lot like the themes that went into TLJ, to me. Luke milking a space otter? Yeah, that would be the matriarchy. Luke failed, while Rey stands strong, and tells him not to give up. If you have no issue with the lore that TCW threw out, you should have no problems with all the lore that TLJ threw out, which is no doubt why it's extremely polarizing, even to fans here, and why I'm more inclined to want to give TLJ, despite how frustrating it is for me, a chance more than the casuals to the older EU. TCW fans do not amount to EU fans.

People rationalize it saying he's bending knee because he's scared he'd be fired. I don't think that's the case. For one thing, LF's priorities are plain as day to me. They want a big TV and movies empire. The publishing industry is taking a pounding due to COVID-19 and the proliferation of mass media, the way it always has, and I don't think his position is particularly threatened, since he's an important figure in the shaping of the direction DSW goes, he's in practically every area of production in some cases. Now for somebody like Mr. Zahn I'd say that applies more to him than to Mr. Filoni because his work always has been writing SW novels, and LF is not interested in books. The new EU feels like it's entirely filler and entirely skippable. Mr. Zahn said prior to 2012, a reboot is a bad idea. That video no longer exists and following 2012 he bowed in and jumped on board the reboot train. He knows who is buttering his bread.

People like Mr. Karpyshyn have reached out with ideas for more TOR, or a Darth Zannah book, and has been rejected. What's the difference? He's too "small-time." And he won't bend knee.

My larger point being, if you're going to call out the DSW for what it's done, you have to go back much earlier and see this phenomenon isn't new. Just because Mr. Filoni is the best of the DSW writers isn't saying much, since he was kind of mediocre back when there were still many EU authors adding to the mythos, and his great successes came from grifting off Mr. Lucas and the older EU stories. It's entirely unoriginal. The few new things Mr. Filoni has to his name, strike me as bizarre and in many cases, not well thought out. Like time travel. The management approach LF has in ignoring the older fans is one he subscribes to as well. There's really fundamentally no difference between Ms. Kennedy saying that there is no source material and him calling the EU a well of ideas and never canon, while while true, I suspect he would overlook the same, for his piddly little show that he likes to imagine having greater importance on the scope of the franchise than it really has, since TCW was also never "canon."

Those are my thoughts. If fandom menace casuals felt that Mr. Filoni is the savior, they're going to be let down. It's just not meant to be.

If the rumours are true, Lucas deeply regrets selling Star Wars. I have no sympathy. He was paid well. But it does mean that Disney may be able to score him to make some more movies. He has far more chance of being the saviour of Star Wars than Filoni. And if Lucas is on board then MAYBE, just MAYBE, they can get the likes of Hamill and Ford back too.

Objectively, the Sequels have not worked. And yes, I hate them so of course I would say that, but Disney was very clear when they bought Star Wars what they wanted out of them: the MCU. They wanted something that could span twenty films (the plan was one a year), fill out an amusement park and sell tons of merchandise. But right now, we have five Disney films, an amusement park that pre-Covid really wasn't doing that well, and toys that retail analysts reckon clog up shelves. Doomcock once made the point, and I agree, that a truly successful franchise can be marked by its merchandise sales. The greater a film or TV show, the more people want to invest in it.

The typical fan counter is that the Sequels made money. And yes they did. But they did not make the money that Disney wanted from its billions of dollars investment. I can see why Disney would want to put the Sequels down as a bad job and move on. Maybe not as a full erasure as being suggested but certainly to limit ever referencing them again.

[Captain Crimson]

I think Star Wars is going to go the same path as DC and Marvel, with lots of different stories each in their own little continuity with little or nothing to do with the original trilogy, beyond the premise.

Like how Batman: The Animated Series has nothing to do with the Adam West series, aside from both being 'batman.'

Or how the X-men films had no connection to the animated series.

That could be the path eventually. The problem right now is that they have poor management to make that a reality and would require them to both understand the older lore and have a healthy respect for it, which I'm skeptical of anyone there past the old guard like Mr. Chee and Mr. Hidalgo.

The rumor, from Overlord DVD, had also said they just plan to toss the sequels into Legends, which would officially make that the trash bin for Lucasfilm. So I am very skeptical about that. Contrary to online opinion, while some people there are liars who are not straight with fans, I don't think LF has that kind of rabid hate for SW. Though I've always hated the Veil and the World Between Worlds since for me, it feels like a cheap story tool that will lead to further dilution and dumbing down of the lore. I mean, think about it. With the fans the DC has right now, to throw the ST into the Legends trash bin would just alienate both the older EU fans as well as DC fans. It would be exactly what EU fans had gone through in 2014 for DC fans, and for EU fans it's just one more blow to the world we love.

My suspicion is that people like Mr. Filoni want to do just this, since they are the kind of creators who just like to do their own thing and don't like being tied down by anything, and in this case, Mr. Lucas, continuity, the EU, and what have you. Seems more like his style of approach than Ms. Kennedy. And tragically, the fandom menace still gives him a pass while she is satan. So there's that strain of sexism in the fandom going on right now.

And besides, since this came from Overlord DVD, he's been wrong before. He reported Ms. Kennedy was gone and she was extended, The leaks for TROS were not him, that was the redditor named JediPaxis, but he ran it as his. Even he says to take it with a grain of salt.

I can buy that there is sexism aimed at her, but she is pretty sexist herself so it all evens out. She declared war on the male fans with all of that Force is Female bullshit and did so intentionally. And if it wasn't an intentional act, if making 95% of the male characters in the sequels evil, fuck-ups, or just generally secondary to the plot was an accident, then I would hate to see what a ''big whoops'' from her looks like.

And if anyone wants to argue that, I ask that you answer me but one question: name me a male character in the sequels that I am meant to look up to and admire.

Luke is a coward. Han is back to his old ways again. Snoke/Palpatine is evil. Kylo Ren is a murderer. Hux is comic relief. Poe is chewed out by everyone. Finn ultimately achieves very little of actual substance.

Now lets contrast: Rey is the ultimate heroine. Leia is the selfless leader of the Resistance. Holdo was written to be in the right even though she wasn't. Rose was clearly Batman to Finn's Robin. The yellow toad woman from TFA whatever-her-name-was is basically Yoda.

My comment was geared more towards this double standard I see among TCW fandom and the casual fans. They consistently appear to rationalize away any biases for Mr. Filoni and give him a pass while going after everyone involved from her to Mr. Abrams and Mr. Johnson but not him. I think a lot of it is a carefully crafted and misleading public persona, that he was Mr. Lucas's direct protege, and that he cares for the older lore and fans, claims easily challenged if one did a little bit of digging.

I mean, really, all the complaints you could level at the DC, the same could be said for TCW and any other work Mr. Filoni has done. I don't get why people are so okay with the derailing of the character for Barriss Offee in having her be the one to frame Ahsoka, that is totally antithetical to the portrayal from the older multimedia project when she was on Felucia and killed during Order 66, and somehow complain about Jake Skywalker? It's only a mild exaggeration, and I'm not even joking here. Continuity doesn't matter to Mr. Filoni and he will be the first to tell you and that's one of the complaints against TLJ, that they fundamentally misunderstand the lore. How is this a shock to anyone who's consistently done research on and followed the older CW multimedia project and TCW? That boat sailed in 2008.

Also, we know from the behind-the-scenes stuff Mr. Filoni was involved in the direct day-to-day planning stages for the way the sequels would go. Mr. Filoni wanted to shift the focus from Luke to Leia, citing matriarchy and subverting patriarchal heroes, that he wants rebirth and healing. I mean, sounds a lot like the themes that went into TLJ, to me. Luke milking a space otter? Yeah, that would be the matriarchy. Luke failed, while Rey stands strong, and tells him not to give up. If you have no issue with the lore that TCW threw out, you should have no problems with all the lore that TLJ threw out, which is no doubt why it's extremely polarizing, even to fans here, and why I'm more inclined to want to give TLJ, despite how frustrating it is for me, a chance more than the casuals to the older EU. TCW fans do not amount to EU fans.

People rationalize it saying he's bending knee because he's scared he'd be fired. I don't think that's the case. For one thing, LF's priorities are plain as day to me. They want a big TV and movies empire. The publishing industry is taking a pounding due to COVID-19 and the proliferation of mass media, the way it always has, and I don't think his position is particularly threatened, since he's an important figure in the shaping of the direction DSW goes, he's in practically every area of production in some cases. Now for somebody like Mr. Zahn I'd say that applies more to him than to Mr. Filoni because his work always has been writing SW novels, and LF is not interested in books. The new EU feels like it's entirely filler and entirely skippable. Mr. Zahn said prior to 2012, a reboot is a bad idea. That video no longer exists and following 2012 he bowed in and jumped on board the reboot train. He knows who is buttering his bread.

People like Mr. Karpyshyn have reached out with ideas for more TOR, or a Darth Zannah book, and has been rejected. What's the difference? He's too "small-time." And he won't bend knee.

My larger point being, if you're going to call out the DSW for what it's done, you have to go back much earlier and see this phenomenon isn't new. Just because Mr. Filoni is the best of the DSW writers isn't saying much, since he was kind of mediocre back when there were still many EU authors adding to the mythos, and his great successes came from grifting off Mr. Lucas and the older EU stories. It's entirely unoriginal. The few new things Mr. Filoni has to his name, strike me as bizarre and in many cases, not well thought out. Like time travel. The management approach LF has in ignoring the older fans is one he subscribes to as well. There's really fundamentally no difference between Ms. Kennedy saying that there is no source material and him calling the EU a well of ideas and never canon, while while true, I suspect he would overlook the same, for his piddly little show that he likes to imagine having greater importance on the scope of the franchise than it really has, since TCW was also never "canon."

Those are my thoughts. If fandom menace casuals felt that Mr. Filoni is the savior, they're going to be let down. It's just not meant to be.

If the rumours are true, Lucas deeply regrets selling Star Wars. I have no sympathy. He was paid well. But it does mean that Disney may be able to score him to make some more movies. He has far more chance of being the saviour of Star Wars than Filoni. And if Lucas is on board then MAYBE, just MAYBE, they can get the likes of Hamill and Ford back too.

Objectively, the Sequels have not worked. And yes, I hate them so of course I would say that, but Disney was very clear when they bought Star Wars what they wanted out of them: the MCU. They wanted something that could span twenty films (the plan was one a year), fill out an amusement park and sell tons of merchandise. But right now, we have five Disney films, an amusement park that pre-Covid really wasn't doing that well, and toys that retail analysts reckon clog up shelves. Doomcock once made the point, and I agree, that a truly successful franchise can be marked by its merchandise sales. The greater a film or TV show, the more people want to invest in it.

The typical fan counter is that the Sequels made money. And yes they did. But they did not make the money that Disney wanted from its billions of dollars investment. I can see why Disney would want to put the Sequels down as a bad job and move on. Maybe not as a full erasure as being suggested but certainly to limit ever referencing them again.

Take rumors at this point with a grain of salt. And Overlord DVD has been wrong before, as I've shown. And frankly, I'm rather apathetic to the movies. For me, they are limited runtime that in today's climate, requires certain marks to hit. And have you forgotten the PT? I always found the EU way more engaging, as it really did enrich and expand the lore and the mythology, the history, much like the SG TV shows did for one movie. For EU fans such as myself, I don't consume DC because it is a pale rehash of the OT and EU, but that my loyalty is the old verse that was discontinued and not just decanonized in 2014, which the armies of normies out there don't get as well as we old-school lore fans do.

Look at it this way. What would you have to pay Mr. Ford to get him back? It seems incredibly doubtful. He was paid a huge sum of cash to get up unshaven and just stumble about for his promised death scene so he could bow out forever. To bring Mr. Ford back would demand too much money than the studio and Disney is willing to relinquish and while Mr. Lucas would be willing to spend so much, I have no doubt to that, they're not. Which is why he's unlikely to get full creative control back. People still remember the PT. I'll hashtag Matt's lines. #ILikedThePrequelsINeverDefendedThem. And besides, their failure to reunite the old cast is history, you can't undo it. You want your old reunion and stories centered on them while still honoring the new generation? Turn to the EU. Move on. It's been done.

Yes, but you're not seeing the bigger picture. The rumor, if it has any validity to it, just strikes me as more of the same tone-deaf management Mr. Filoni has had that everybody there has, since it comes out of no respect for the older lore and fans and an attempt to chase casuals and children. Just shove the sequels into Star Wars Legends, really? The backlash to decanonizing the EU was actually tame in 2014, but it still got discussed. And only a natural consequence of TCW building so many retcons that a reboot was going to happen regardless. And many EU fans were heartbroken. Now to do that, after six years of the DC and with many new fans and kids coming aboard who don't know anything better? The backlash would be twice what it was then. It is a stamp that anything that is not canon goes into the SWL trash bin. And honestly, that would be consistent to Mr. Filoni's treatment of older lore and fans, when he got called out on the Wulf Yularen blunder and just kept badmouthing continuity.

Ah, but some say they're going to return the EU? Make that the official canon again? No. I don't support that either. Just keep growing the EU as an official alternate timeline and keep Mr. Filoni far away from it. They've burned goodwill from EU fans first, and I think we'd be far more suspicious than the casuals and children they're chasing would be. We are the old consumers, the hobbyists and geeks who sustain it long-term off the shelves and past the theater. And they lost us in 2014. The books are there still, and so are the comics to those who want something more like the sequels they didn't get. They're very good, check them out.

Why is the merchandise tanking? A good reason would be a two-pronged failure. Giving people like Mr. Filoni more creative control and executive authority when you want a multimedia empire, since consistency is the glue to hold it together, and he's never cared for that. The second is that with the EU wiped away, most hobbyists left in 2014. And turned to collecting the old and buying up Legends products out of loyalty, to prove it does sell. But so long as their greedy eyes remain fixed to children and casuals and they talk down to the audience, then we will never get better quality control. All the talented writers are gone, except Mr. Zahn, who sold out. That bodes even more ominously for the DC than you might think, since you're more of a general SW fan than an EU fan.

I think RK Outpost explained it well. They will just ignore the sequels, for now, attempt a patch job with the new EU, and focus on HR. And I'd support that. From what I've seen of the HR, it's getting off to a good start, at least. It's got some embarrassing virtue-signaling nods, but at least it's distinct and new and fresh. I think Mr. Soule is one of the best new EU authors, and I'd like to see the new EU try to branch more past what is standalone marketing print, but something tells me that's a long time off.

[Captain Crimson]

I felt I needed to double post to further elaborate my position here.

I don't even necessarily mind using the Veil or World Between Worlds to retcon the timeline, mind you. It is that my sole objection is shoving the changed sequels, which were still built as part of the DC, into Legends, which they were never designed to be part of. That's a smack in the face to all of the fans who followed the EU and supported it. It almost seems like it's deliberately made to enrage those older fans. You can still change the timeline without dumping it into Legends, which is how this strikes me. It really feels deliberately tailored to stir up as much flames and controversy among older EU fans and younger or older DSW fans as possible, which is why I am skeptical since I don't think they are trying to hurt the fans on purpose... perhaps. But you never know, do you? They definitely want a matriarchy, but the sad fact is they think most will enjoy it.

For one, it would require LF to dial down their narcissistic approach to SW, in that they feel all they touch turns to gold with purified SJW politics. Do you really believe they'd decanonize something they had worked so hard to build only six years later, when they still get criticism about the old EU? If that is the case, it feels more like an attempt to further blur the line and shut up criticism about the EU so the old fans cannot ask for it anymore as they turn to both old EU and ST and smugly proclaim, "What? You want SWL? But most hate it! Poor box-office sales!" Or something equally inane like that, which is not how corporations work at all, it's about the bottom line. I'd meant what I said, this would not only be a repeat of 2014 for older EU fans, it would drag DC fans along with it. I mean, perhaps I am more cynical than others, since LF has gone out of their way to discredit the older lore and fans and most casuals buy it, and yet I still find this hard to swallow.

But at the end of the day, retcon the ST all you want. Just don't shove it into SWL, please. That proves you never cared about it at all, it's just a quick ride to easy success off of other people's hard work, and you believe the older fans are just idiots you're trolling to leave you in droves. Rebrand the DC and ST into Star Wars Infinities, which was where non-canon content was made if you're not going to just make a changed timeline, that you have to put it somewhere. We shall see where this goes.

[clearspira]

I felt I needed to double post to further elaborate my position here.

I don't even necessarily mind using the Veil or World Between Worlds to retcon the timeline, mind you. It is that my sole objection is shoving the changed sequels, which were still built as part of the DC, into Legends, which they were never designed to be part of. That's a smack in the face to all of the fans who followed the EU and supported it. It almost seems like it's deliberately made to enrage those older fans. You can still change the timeline without dumping it into Legends, which is how this strikes me. It really feels deliberately tailored to stir up as much flames and controversy among older EU fans and younger or older DSW fans as possible, which is why I am skeptical since I don't think they are trying to hurt the fans on purpose... perhaps. But you never know, do you? They definitely want a matriarchy, but the sad fact is they think most will enjoy it.

For one, it would require LF to dial down their narcissistic approach to SW, in that they feel all they touch turns to gold with purified SJW politics. Do you really believe they'd decanonize something they had worked so hard to build only six years later, when they still get criticism about the old EU? If that is the case, it feels more like an attempt to further blur the line and shut up criticism about the EU so the old fans cannot ask for it anymore as they turn to both old EU and ST and smugly proclaim, "What? You want SWL? But most hate it! Poor box-office sales!" Or something equally inane like that, which is not how corporations work at all, it's about the bottom line. I'd meant what I said, this would not only be a repeat of 2014 for older EU fans, it would drag DC fans along with it. I mean, perhaps I am more cynical than others, since LF has gone out of their way to discredit the older lore and fans and most casuals buy it, and yet I still find this hard to swallow.

But at the end of the day, retcon the ST all you want. Just don't shove it into SWL, please. That proves you never cared about it at all, it's just a quick ride to easy success off of other people's hard work, and you believe the older fans are just idiots you're trolling to leave you in droves. Rebrand the DC and ST into Star Wars Infinities, which was where non-canon content was made if you're not going to just make a changed timeline, that you have to put it somewhere. We shall see where this goes.

It will never cease to amaze me the ham-fisted way they went about that though. I, personally, would have gone the route of trying to make a strong female character that boys AND girls can look up to. Y'know, like ''Alien'' did with Ripley?

But instead - and God knows why - they thought the best way to go about this was to create a woman who is basically Heracles whilst simultaneously demeaning the male cast. This was never going to wash and I cannot think of a time when it would have done. The seventies gave me Ripley, the eighties gave me Sarah Connor, the nineties gave me Buffy, the noughties gave me Starbuck and the New Tens gave me... Rey. Spot the odd one out.

This idea that we are now more sexist or that we are as sexist as we ever was simply does not wash when you take into account the numerous strong female characters that have worked and are absolutely beloved. We don't like Rey because of what she represents and the fact that she is boring.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

I felt I needed to double post to further elaborate my position here.

I don't even necessarily mind using the Veil or World Between Worlds to retcon the timeline, mind you. It is that my sole objection is shoving the changed sequels, which were still built as part of the DC, into Legends, which they were never designed to be part of. That's a smack in the face to all of the fans who followed the EU and supported it. It almost seems like it's deliberately made to enrage those older fans. You can still change the timeline without dumping it into Legends, which is how this strikes me. It really feels deliberately tailored to stir up as much flames and controversy among older EU fans and younger or older DSW fans as possible, which is why I am skeptical since I don't think they are trying to hurt the fans on purpose... perhaps. But you never know, do you? They definitely want a matriarchy, but the sad fact is they think most will enjoy it.

For one, it would require LF to dial down their narcissistic approach to SW, in that they feel all they touch turns to gold with purified SJW politics. Do you really believe they'd decanonize something they had worked so hard to build only six years later, when they still get criticism about the old EU? If that is the case, it feels more like an attempt to further blur the line and shut up criticism about the EU so the old fans cannot ask for it anymore as they turn to both old EU and ST and smugly proclaim, "What? You want SWL? But most hate it! Poor box-office sales!" Or something equally inane like that, which is not how corporations work at all, it's about the bottom line. I'd meant what I said, this would not only be a repeat of 2014 for older EU fans, it would drag DC fans along with it. I mean, perhaps I am more cynical than others, since LF has gone out of their way to discredit the older lore and fans and most casuals buy it, and yet I still find this hard to swallow.

But at the end of the day, retcon the ST all you want. Just don't shove it into SWL, please. That proves you never cared about it at all, it's just a quick ride to easy success off of other people's hard work, and you believe the older fans are just idiots you're trolling to leave you in droves. Rebrand the DC and ST into Star Wars Infinities, which was where non-canon content was made if you're not going to just make a changed timeline, that you have to put it somewhere. We shall see where this goes.

It will never cease to amaze me the ham-fisted way they went about that though. I, personally, would have gone the route of trying to make a strong female character that boys AND girls can look up to. Y'know, like ''Alien'' did with Ripley?

But instead - and God knows why - they thought the best way to go about this was to create a woman who is basically Heracles whilst simultaneously demeaning the male cast. This was never going to wash and I cannot think of a time when it would have done. The seventies gave me Ripley, the eighties gave me Sarah Connor, the nineties gave me Buffy, the noughties gave me Starbuck and the New Tens gave me... Rey. Spot the odd one out.

This idea that we are now more sexist or that we are as sexist as we ever was simply does not wash when you take into account the numerous strong female characters that have worked and are absolutely beloved. We don't like Rey because of what she represents and the fact that she is boring.

Personally, I didn't find Rey that boring. And I'm all for the "she's a Star Wars Fangirl" - approach. Plus: the new Tens gave you Wonder Woman, Amelia Pond, Clara Oswald, Elizabeth "Lizzie" Keen as characters you could look up to. Persons, that lived a normal live, until they were pulled in the Extraordinary .

Concerning the "the Force is female" - I'm a guy and I don't have any problem with it. The Force is Female - as the Force is Male, so the Force doesn't care about gender.

By the way, what do you mean with "create a woman, who is basically Heracles"?
You can't be talking about Rey, because that doesn't fly. Heracles was born, because Zeus wanted to bang a Greek woman (hey, it's Zeus, that's his MO) and Hera was raging with jealousy. So - that can't be your "Rey"-parallel.
What's next concerning Herc? He's inhumanely strong. Does that apply to Rey? Well, she's a force user, but she can do all the other stuff, that any other force user could do. So - that can't be yor Rey-Parallel.
Did Rey have to suffer through 12 tasks? Not that I'd be aware of - so... whom are you talking about?

And while we're at it - where do you see "demeaning the male cast"?

[phantom000]

I feel like a lot of movie studios are having the same problem Marvel had under Perelman; business executives who are less interested in their product than they are just making business deals.

Disney buys Star Wars then announces they are making a sequel trilogy, they make billions of dollars in merchandising deals with companies that want to take advantage of this new film. Disney has already earned several times their initial investment thanks to merchandising, so now the films themselves are just an after-thought. A film that does very well at the box office would just be icing on the cake. Who cares if the new films bomb when they have already made a fortune.

[Nealithi]

I can't tell where my feelings on the sequel sit. Initially I liked our new young heroes and thought they would grow into fine successors to the ones we already knew. But then it seemed like it ticked boxes.
Blow up a Deathstar clone, check.
Kill beloved character, check.
And then the Rey got a little too powerful too fast. I liked that the mind trick did not initially work for her. If they just dropped the line used in Doctor Who about mind contact being a two way street or door that works both ways. I would not mind her reading his mind. It was that last lightsaber battle that went a bit above.
Basically the sequels felt off. Like they were trying a bit too hard.
I think if the sequels could be properly erased. Like only the directors of Disney even knew of them erased. And then tell them to go the way of Star Trek. TNG allowed the history of the first show but was not tied down to it. It could have been referenced back to it on occasion. But make all new heroes and villains. And for the love of God give the villain more depth than being the bad guy. If you had to re-enact SWtOR. The reborn Republic was restoring order when a new threat attacked from the unexplored regions. The thought extinct sith invaded again. Just as they did thousands of years ago. The Republic military and newly reborn Jedi order have to face this new menace. Speak of those that came before as historical figures. General Solo who tried to rebuild the military to protect. Name some maneuvers after him. Senator Leia who went to restore the senate and chancellorship that the worlds voices could be heard as an honor not just to her adopted home, but to her biological mother. Master Luke that reformed the Jedi order to seek peace after such a violent conflict.
If you had to make the stance of look to the new and don't be stuck in the past. Then stop having half measures and passing the torch episodes in the movies. Let characters fall into their own roles.

Can Disney write a good Star Wars movie? I think so. I and all I know personally, like Rogue One. I and my close friend have discussed Solo. And we feel it was fine for a Star Wars movie. What made it difficult was trying to strip mine nostalgia. If the main characters had been anyone but Han and Chewie and them getting the Falcon. It would have been a great movie.

And as far as trilogies go. I think they either need to map a full trilogy out if they want to jump movie to movie. Or do as the original trilogy did. Put a few years between them and make barely a comment between them. Like the rebels went from Yavin to Hoth. The only thing between then that we hear about is 'that bounty hunter we ran into on Ord Mantel'.
But to paraphrase Chuck. 'But that is just my opinion'.

[Captain Crimson]

I also want to add this. I think that dumping the unwanted sequels, as this is being presented, into the SWL trash bin when you don't need to do that for the changed canon timeline is totally marketing suicide. And I think they know that. That's why this strikes me as something Mr. Filoni would want to try, and Ms. Kennedy is holding him back on this because she is a far more competent businesswoman than he ever will be. Don't undersell that. Don't get me wrong, she is not good for the lore and fans, but she's a shrewd capitalist that I think is still restraining the worst impulses of some of the more loose cannons around her.

Think about it this way. Legends fans have for years been patiently buying up all the new reprints under the Legends banner as they can, trying to cultivate new fans and bring aboard children, help them learn about how the old EU worked, which was a timeline contrary to LF propaganda (the new EU also follows a similar timeline if you pick up any of the books), and just generally trying to spread good vibes. Many of them I know encourage a positive fandom. And like it or not, the ST has fans that don't even have to be SJWs, but that this is all they think they have. It's Star Wars, and because they are not book readers, they can't imagine anything better. Although TLJ is highly divisive, the ST itself polarizing, many still love TFA and TROS for various reasons. Now, why are sales down? I would peg it as that brief period following TLJ, as an official act of protest, plus the fact thousands if not tens of thousands or more old EU fans just won't buy up the new material simply to keep sales for SWL going. I know many EU fans who are just dying to check out the new books but won't do so out of solidarity and fear if they don't act now, Legends will just quietly fade forever.

Dumping the sequels into SWL when you don't need to do it in order to change the canon timeline seems more like spite against the older lore and fans, an attempt to discredit them and the EU and it's why I can't buy that. The small but dedicated Legends fans who made $120 million dollars in book sales worldwide either feel indifferent to the ST or apathetic, and it would easily drive many to stop supporting Legends altogether in their attempts to get more SWL written. SWL is not just what online hate articles spew as being 90% crap, but with gems like KOTOR, and far more. Plus SWL fans already went through this in 2008 with TCW as it presented what was basically an alternate take on the Clone Wars multimedia project and the rise of the Empire. And 2014 just added to that. SWL fans have been through quite enough abuse already. And finally, it would confuse the very normies and casuals which the ST is built for, by LF's own admission, further tanking the sales if they see a perplexing big yellow Legends banner on it, and any news they are going to rerelease EPVII would be met with confusion. "Wait, I just bought that! Didn't that come out in 2015?"

Despite their SJW agenda, marketing is still what drives any major corporation, and even incompetent writers like those managing LF can see that. I can tell you right now, I'm one of those old EU fans who consistently rebuy Legends and then donate them to the TSF, or leave at a book drop. We are doing a lot of great stuff. We are NOT rabid trolls who bullied Ms. Tran off Instragram as the media paints us, and we are not terrorists like some overzealous groups have smeared us. This would just be, for me at least, the final kick in the teeth that I think would kill any attempts at a multimedia empire like they had under Mr. Lucas. The TV shows and movies would survive, but books, comics, games? They would shrivel away for good. Despite lies by LF that the EU was never canon "Legends" isn't even where non-canon content goes! It would be the N Canon slot, and this was always non-canon. What hierarchy slot would the sequels be placed? It can't be C Canon and yet this would have the new SWL portraying two completely different series of events following Endor. Even TCW had the T Canon slot made up for it. Mr. Chee and Mr. Hidalgo still work there, they know all this. This would be such a deliberate attempt to kill SWL forever, I don't see this being valid.

[clearspira]

I felt I needed to double post to further elaborate my position here.

I don't even necessarily mind using the Veil or World Between Worlds to retcon the timeline, mind you. It is that my sole objection is shoving the changed sequels, which were still built as part of the DC, into Legends, which they were never designed to be part of. That's a smack in the face to all of the fans who followed the EU and supported it. It almost seems like it's deliberately made to enrage those older fans. You can still change the timeline without dumping it into Legends, which is how this strikes me. It really feels deliberately tailored to stir up as much flames and controversy among older EU fans and younger or older DSW fans as possible, which is why I am skeptical since I don't think they are trying to hurt the fans on purpose... perhaps. But you never know, do you? They definitely want a matriarchy, but the sad fact is they think most will enjoy it.

For one, it would require LF to dial down their narcissistic approach to SW, in that they feel all they touch turns to gold with purified SJW politics. Do you really believe they'd decanonize something they had worked so hard to build only six years later, when they still get criticism about the old EU? If that is the case, it feels more like an attempt to further blur the line and shut up criticism about the EU so the old fans cannot ask for it anymore as they turn to both old EU and ST and smugly proclaim, "What? You want SWL? But most hate it! Poor box-office sales!" Or something equally inane like that, which is not how corporations work at all, it's about the bottom line. I'd meant what I said, this would not only be a repeat of 2014 for older EU fans, it would drag DC fans along with it. I mean, perhaps I am more cynical than others, since LF has gone out of their way to discredit the older lore and fans and most casuals buy it, and yet I still find this hard to swallow.

But at the end of the day, retcon the ST all you want. Just don't shove it into SWL, please. That proves you never cared about it at all, it's just a quick ride to easy success off of other people's hard work, and you believe the older fans are just idiots you're trolling to leave you in droves. Rebrand the DC and ST into Star Wars Infinities, which was where non-canon content was made if you're not going to just make a changed timeline, that you have to put it somewhere. We shall see where this goes.

It will never cease to amaze me the ham-fisted way they went about that though. I, personally, would have gone the route of trying to make a strong female character that boys AND girls can look up to. Y'know, like ''Alien'' did with Ripley?

But instead - and God knows why - they thought the best way to go about this was to create a woman who is basically Heracles whilst simultaneously demeaning the male cast. This was never going to wash and I cannot think of a time when it would have done. The seventies gave me Ripley, the eighties gave me Sarah Connor, the nineties gave me Buffy, the noughties gave me Starbuck and the New Tens gave me... Rey. Spot the odd one out.

This idea that we are now more sexist or that we are as sexist as we ever was simply does not wash when you take into account the numerous strong female characters that have worked and are absolutely beloved. We don't like Rey because of what she represents and the fact that she is boring.

Personally, I didn't find Rey that boring. And I'm all for the "she's a Star Wars Fangirl" - approach. Plus: the new Tens gave you Wonder Woman, Amelia Pond, Clara Oswald, Elizabeth "Lizzie" Keen as characters you could look up to. Persons, that lived a normal live, until they were pulled in the Extraordinary .

Concerning the "the Force is female" - I'm a guy and I don't have any problem with it. The Force is Female - as the Force is Male, so the Force doesn't care about gender.

By the way, what do you mean with "create a woman, who is basically Heracles"?
You can't be talking about Rey, because that doesn't fly. Heracles was born, because Zeus wanted to bang a Greek woman (hey, it's Zeus, that's his MO) and Hera was raging with jealousy. So - that can't be your "Rey"-parallel.
What's next concerning Herc? He's inhumanely strong. Does that apply to Rey? Well, she's a force user, but she can do all the other stuff, that any other force user could do. So - that can't be yor Rey-Parallel.
Did Rey have to suffer through 12 tasks? Not that I'd be aware of - so... whom are you talking about?

And while we're at it - where do you see "demeaning the male cast"?

I call her Heracles to be sarcastic as I believe her to be essentially a demi-god at this point. More powerful than anyone, more skilled than anyone, more beloved than anyone. She is beyond being a mere Mary Sue.

As for demeaning the male cast, I noted it in more detail in a previous post a page back. There is not a single male character in the Sequel trilogy that I can admire. They are all either evil, cowardly, comic relief or subservient to the plot. The females on the other hand are universally heroes or leaders. I also challenged anyone here to prove me wrong should they disagree. Give me man or boy in this trilogy that I can look up to and I will retract my statement.