The Star Wars Sequels Erased?

[McAvoy]

Clearspira,

I do agree with how males were protrayed in the Sequel Trilogy. I can give a pass for Han Solo since Ford basically wanted his character to die though he wrote him wrong.

But take for example Kylo. The guy is wrote as some man baby with daddy and mommy issues that doesn't know what he wants because he is throwing man baby tantrums when he doesn't get his way. Oh and he is thirsty for Rey.

But yeah they made the women in the Sequel Trilogy the heros and men bubbling idiots.

I would not have a problem making it 'the Force is female' if they actually made it balanced and better written characters. Rey is a Mary Sue.

And from a certain point of view I can see how they treated Luke. The Pro argument for him being a hermit. Or Rey is so good because she downloaded what she needed to know from Kylo.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

I felt I needed to double post to further elaborate my position here.

I don't even necessarily mind using the Veil or World Between Worlds to retcon the timeline, mind you. It is that my sole objection is shoving the changed sequels, which were still built as part of the DC, into Legends, which they were never designed to be part of. That's a smack in the face to all of the fans who followed the EU and supported it. It almost seems like it's deliberately made to enrage those older fans. You can still change the timeline without dumping it into Legends, which is how this strikes me. It really feels deliberately tailored to stir up as much flames and controversy among older EU fans and younger or older DSW fans as possible, which is why I am skeptical since I don't think they are trying to hurt the fans on purpose... perhaps. But you never know, do you? They definitely want a matriarchy, but the sad fact is they think most will enjoy it.

For one, it would require LF to dial down their narcissistic approach to SW, in that they feel all they touch turns to gold with purified SJW politics. Do you really believe they'd decanonize something they had worked so hard to build only six years later, when they still get criticism about the old EU? If that is the case, it feels more like an attempt to further blur the line and shut up criticism about the EU so the old fans cannot ask for it anymore as they turn to both old EU and ST and smugly proclaim, "What? You want SWL? But most hate it! Poor box-office sales!" Or something equally inane like that, which is not how corporations work at all, it's about the bottom line. I'd meant what I said, this would not only be a repeat of 2014 for older EU fans, it would drag DC fans along with it. I mean, perhaps I am more cynical than others, since LF has gone out of their way to discredit the older lore and fans and most casuals buy it, and yet I still find this hard to swallow.

But at the end of the day, retcon the ST all you want. Just don't shove it into SWL, please. That proves you never cared about it at all, it's just a quick ride to easy success off of other people's hard work, and you believe the older fans are just idiots you're trolling to leave you in droves. Rebrand the DC and ST into Star Wars Infinities, which was where non-canon content was made if you're not going to just make a changed timeline, that you have to put it somewhere. We shall see where this goes.

It will never cease to amaze me the ham-fisted way they went about that though. I, personally, would have gone the route of trying to make a strong female character that boys AND girls can look up to. Y'know, like ''Alien'' did with Ripley?

But instead - and God knows why - they thought the best way to go about this was to create a woman who is basically Heracles whilst simultaneously demeaning the male cast. This was never going to wash and I cannot think of a time when it would have done. The seventies gave me Ripley, the eighties gave me Sarah Connor, the nineties gave me Buffy, the noughties gave me Starbuck and the New Tens gave me... Rey. Spot the odd one out.

This idea that we are now more sexist or that we are as sexist as we ever was simply does not wash when you take into account the numerous strong female characters that have worked and are absolutely beloved. We don't like Rey because of what she represents and the fact that she is boring.

Personally, I didn't find Rey that boring. And I'm all for the "she's a Star Wars Fangirl" - approach. Plus: the new Tens gave you Wonder Woman, Amelia Pond, Clara Oswald, Elizabeth "Lizzie" Keen as characters you could look up to. Persons, that lived a normal live, until they were pulled in the Extraordinary .

Concerning the "the Force is female" - I'm a guy and I don't have any problem with it. The Force is Female - as the Force is Male, so the Force doesn't care about gender.

By the way, what do you mean with "create a woman, who is basically Heracles"?
You can't be talking about Rey, because that doesn't fly. Heracles was born, because Zeus wanted to bang a Greek woman (hey, it's Zeus, that's his MO) and Hera was raging with jealousy. So - that can't be your "Rey"-parallel.
What's next concerning Herc? He's inhumanely strong. Does that apply to Rey? Well, she's a force user, but she can do all the other stuff, that any other force user could do. So - that can't be yor Rey-Parallel.
Did Rey have to suffer through 12 tasks? Not that I'd be aware of - so... whom are you talking about?

And while we're at it - where do you see "demeaning the male cast"?

I call her Heracles to be sarcastic as I believe her to be essentially a demi-god at this point. More powerful than anyone, more skilled than anyone, more beloved than anyone. She is beyond being a mere Mary Sue.

As for demeaning the male cast, I noted it in more detail in a previous post a page back. There is not a single male character in the Sequel trilogy that I can admire. They are all either evil, cowardly, comic relief or subservient to the plot. The females on the other hand are universally heroes or leaders. I also challenged anyone here to prove me wrong should they disagree. Give me man or boy in this trilogy that I can look up to and I will retract my statement.

You can't admire - say - Poe Dameron, Fighter extraordinaire? I admire persons, who fly up to a Star Destroyer and poke fun at the commander of said ship. That is something that screams "chuzpe", because - don't forget: The new order can blast your little ship to pieces in no time.

[clearspira]

I felt I needed to double post to further elaborate my position here.

I don't even necessarily mind using the Veil or World Between Worlds to retcon the timeline, mind you. It is that my sole objection is shoving the changed sequels, which were still built as part of the DC, into Legends, which they were never designed to be part of. That's a smack in the face to all of the fans who followed the EU and supported it. It almost seems like it's deliberately made to enrage those older fans. You can still change the timeline without dumping it into Legends, which is how this strikes me. It really feels deliberately tailored to stir up as much flames and controversy among older EU fans and younger or older DSW fans as possible, which is why I am skeptical since I don't think they are trying to hurt the fans on purpose... perhaps. But you never know, do you? They definitely want a matriarchy, but the sad fact is they think most will enjoy it.

For one, it would require LF to dial down their narcissistic approach to SW, in that they feel all they touch turns to gold with purified SJW politics. Do you really believe they'd decanonize something they had worked so hard to build only six years later, when they still get criticism about the old EU? If that is the case, it feels more like an attempt to further blur the line and shut up criticism about the EU so the old fans cannot ask for it anymore as they turn to both old EU and ST and smugly proclaim, "What? You want SWL? But most hate it! Poor box-office sales!" Or something equally inane like that, which is not how corporations work at all, it's about the bottom line. I'd meant what I said, this would not only be a repeat of 2014 for older EU fans, it would drag DC fans along with it. I mean, perhaps I am more cynical than others, since LF has gone out of their way to discredit the older lore and fans and most casuals buy it, and yet I still find this hard to swallow.

But at the end of the day, retcon the ST all you want. Just don't shove it into SWL, please. That proves you never cared about it at all, it's just a quick ride to easy success off of other people's hard work, and you believe the older fans are just idiots you're trolling to leave you in droves. Rebrand the DC and ST into Star Wars Infinities, which was where non-canon content was made if you're not going to just make a changed timeline, that you have to put it somewhere. We shall see where this goes.

It will never cease to amaze me the ham-fisted way they went about that though. I, personally, would have gone the route of trying to make a strong female character that boys AND girls can look up to. Y'know, like ''Alien'' did with Ripley?

But instead - and God knows why - they thought the best way to go about this was to create a woman who is basically Heracles whilst simultaneously demeaning the male cast. This was never going to wash and I cannot think of a time when it would have done. The seventies gave me Ripley, the eighties gave me Sarah Connor, the nineties gave me Buffy, the noughties gave me Starbuck and the New Tens gave me... Rey. Spot the odd one out.

This idea that we are now more sexist or that we are as sexist as we ever was simply does not wash when you take into account the numerous strong female characters that have worked and are absolutely beloved. We don't like Rey because of what she represents and the fact that she is boring.

Personally, I didn't find Rey that boring. And I'm all for the "she's a Star Wars Fangirl" - approach. Plus: the new Tens gave you Wonder Woman, Amelia Pond, Clara Oswald, Elizabeth "Lizzie" Keen as characters you could look up to. Persons, that lived a normal live, until they were pulled in the Extraordinary .

Concerning the "the Force is female" - I'm a guy and I don't have any problem with it. The Force is Female - as the Force is Male, so the Force doesn't care about gender.

By the way, what do you mean with "create a woman, who is basically Heracles"?
You can't be talking about Rey, because that doesn't fly. Heracles was born, because Zeus wanted to bang a Greek woman (hey, it's Zeus, that's his MO) and Hera was raging with jealousy. So - that can't be your "Rey"-parallel.
What's next concerning Herc? He's inhumanely strong. Does that apply to Rey? Well, she's a force user, but she can do all the other stuff, that any other force user could do. So - that can't be yor Rey-Parallel.
Did Rey have to suffer through 12 tasks? Not that I'd be aware of - so... whom are you talking about?

And while we're at it - where do you see "demeaning the male cast"?

I call her Heracles to be sarcastic as I believe her to be essentially a demi-god at this point. More powerful than anyone, more skilled than anyone, more beloved than anyone. She is beyond being a mere Mary Sue.

As for demeaning the male cast, I noted it in more detail in a previous post a page back. There is not a single male character in the Sequel trilogy that I can admire. They are all either evil, cowardly, comic relief or subservient to the plot. The females on the other hand are universally heroes or leaders. I also challenged anyone here to prove me wrong should they disagree. Give me man or boy in this trilogy that I can look up to and I will retract my statement.

You can't admire - say - Poe Dameron, Fighter extraordinaire? I admire persons, who fly up to a Star Destroyer and poke fun at the commander of said ship. That is something that screams "chuzpe", because - don't forget: The new order can blast your little ship to pieces in no time.

TFA Poe yeah, sure. But his whole plot of TLJ was that he was a hot headed danger to his men who cannot listen to a female leader. I dont agree, i think he was in the right and Holdo was Zapp Brannigan's less talented sister, but that does not change the fact that I am not MEANT to agree with him.

And what did we get in TROS? The implication that Rey is a superior pilot to him. Rey - an uneducated woman who grew up in a desert - is superior to the best pilot in the Resistance.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

I felt I needed to double post to further elaborate my position here.

I don't even necessarily mind using the Veil or World Between Worlds to retcon the timeline, mind you. It is that my sole objection is shoving the changed sequels, which were still built as part of the DC, into Legends, which they were never designed to be part of. That's a smack in the face to all of the fans who followed the EU and supported it. It almost seems like it's deliberately made to enrage those older fans. You can still change the timeline without dumping it into Legends, which is how this strikes me. It really feels deliberately tailored to stir up as much flames and controversy among older EU fans and younger or older DSW fans as possible, which is why I am skeptical since I don't think they are trying to hurt the fans on purpose... perhaps. But you never know, do you? They definitely want a matriarchy, but the sad fact is they think most will enjoy it.

For one, it would require LF to dial down their narcissistic approach to SW, in that they feel all they touch turns to gold with purified SJW politics. Do you really believe they'd decanonize something they had worked so hard to build only six years later, when they still get criticism about the old EU? If that is the case, it feels more like an attempt to further blur the line and shut up criticism about the EU so the old fans cannot ask for it anymore as they turn to both old EU and ST and smugly proclaim, "What? You want SWL? But most hate it! Poor box-office sales!" Or something equally inane like that, which is not how corporations work at all, it's about the bottom line. I'd meant what I said, this would not only be a repeat of 2014 for older EU fans, it would drag DC fans along with it. I mean, perhaps I am more cynical than others, since LF has gone out of their way to discredit the older lore and fans and most casuals buy it, and yet I still find this hard to swallow.

But at the end of the day, retcon the ST all you want. Just don't shove it into SWL, please. That proves you never cared about it at all, it's just a quick ride to easy success off of other people's hard work, and you believe the older fans are just idiots you're trolling to leave you in droves. Rebrand the DC and ST into Star Wars Infinities, which was where non-canon content was made if you're not going to just make a changed timeline, that you have to put it somewhere. We shall see where this goes.

It will never cease to amaze me the ham-fisted way they went about that though. I, personally, would have gone the route of trying to make a strong female character that boys AND girls can look up to. Y'know, like ''Alien'' did with Ripley?

But instead - and God knows why - they thought the best way to go about this was to create a woman who is basically Heracles whilst simultaneously demeaning the male cast. This was never going to wash and I cannot think of a time when it would have done. The seventies gave me Ripley, the eighties gave me Sarah Connor, the nineties gave me Buffy, the noughties gave me Starbuck and the New Tens gave me... Rey. Spot the odd one out.

This idea that we are now more sexist or that we are as sexist as we ever was simply does not wash when you take into account the numerous strong female characters that have worked and are absolutely beloved. We don't like Rey because of what she represents and the fact that she is boring.

Personally, I didn't find Rey that boring. And I'm all for the "she's a Star Wars Fangirl" - approach. Plus: the new Tens gave you Wonder Woman, Amelia Pond, Clara Oswald, Elizabeth "Lizzie" Keen as characters you could look up to. Persons, that lived a normal live, until they were pulled in the Extraordinary .

Concerning the "the Force is female" - I'm a guy and I don't have any problem with it. The Force is Female - as the Force is Male, so the Force doesn't care about gender.

By the way, what do you mean with "create a woman, who is basically Heracles"?
You can't be talking about Rey, because that doesn't fly. Heracles was born, because Zeus wanted to bang a Greek woman (hey, it's Zeus, that's his MO) and Hera was raging with jealousy. So - that can't be your "Rey"-parallel.
What's next concerning Herc? He's inhumanely strong. Does that apply to Rey? Well, she's a force user, but she can do all the other stuff, that any other force user could do. So - that can't be yor Rey-Parallel.
Did Rey have to suffer through 12 tasks? Not that I'd be aware of - so... whom are you talking about?

And while we're at it - where do you see "demeaning the male cast"?

I call her Heracles to be sarcastic as I believe her to be essentially a demi-god at this point. More powerful than anyone, more skilled than anyone, more beloved than anyone. She is beyond being a mere Mary Sue.

As for demeaning the male cast, I noted it in more detail in a previous post a page back. There is not a single male character in the Sequel trilogy that I can admire. They are all either evil, cowardly, comic relief or subservient to the plot. The females on the other hand are universally heroes or leaders. I also challenged anyone here to prove me wrong should they disagree. Give me man or boy in this trilogy that I can look up to and I will retract my statement.

You can't admire - say - Poe Dameron, Fighter extraordinaire? I admire persons, who fly up to a Star Destroyer and poke fun at the commander of said ship. That is something that screams "chuzpe", because - don't forget: The new order can blast your little ship to pieces in no time.

TFA Poe yeah, sure. But his whole plot of TLJ was that he was a hot headed danger to his men who cannot listen to a female leader. I dont agree, i think he was in the right and Holdo was Zapp Brannigan's less talented sister, but that does not change the fact that I am not MEANT to agree with him.

And what did we get in TROS? The implication that Rey is a superior pilot to him. Rey - an uneducated woman who grew up in a desert - is superior to the best pilot in the Resistance.

Nope, sorry, I disagree with you concerning "Poe was in the right". I mean - it is unknown, how the First Order can track the fleeing ship so, the simplest solution is: Keep everything as close to your vest as you can.

But Poes entrance in the movie screams Chuzpe.
And maybe, just maybe, you can have a character, whom you think of, that he is cool - while he's "a hot headed danger".

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Didn't the First Order only find them when Benicio Del Toro overheard the whole plan in the first place by Finn and Rose?

I'm pretty sure though yeah Poe is responsible for exposing the fleet somehow.

[Antiboyscout]

Didn't the First Order only find them when Benicio Del Toro overheard the whole plan in the first place by Finn and Rose?

I'm pretty sure though yeah Poe is responsible for exposing the fleet somehow.

After he humbled himself, apologized and was still rebuffed when asking for a plan. (with some bs about hope, I know many people in this forum that would not accept this if you replaced hope with God)

Nothing quite like people who use starwars has an example(excuse) to protest and riot, saying Poe should have just shut up and obeyed authority.

[clearspira]

I felt I needed to double post to further elaborate my position here.

I don't even necessarily mind using the Veil or World Between Worlds to retcon the timeline, mind you. It is that my sole objection is shoving the changed sequels, which were still built as part of the DC, into Legends, which they were never designed to be part of. That's a smack in the face to all of the fans who followed the EU and supported it. It almost seems like it's deliberately made to enrage those older fans. You can still change the timeline without dumping it into Legends, which is how this strikes me. It really feels deliberately tailored to stir up as much flames and controversy among older EU fans and younger or older DSW fans as possible, which is why I am skeptical since I don't think they are trying to hurt the fans on purpose... perhaps. But you never know, do you? They definitely want a matriarchy, but the sad fact is they think most will enjoy it.

For one, it would require LF to dial down their narcissistic approach to SW, in that they feel all they touch turns to gold with purified SJW politics. Do you really believe they'd decanonize something they had worked so hard to build only six years later, when they still get criticism about the old EU? If that is the case, it feels more like an attempt to further blur the line and shut up criticism about the EU so the old fans cannot ask for it anymore as they turn to both old EU and ST and smugly proclaim, "What? You want SWL? But most hate it! Poor box-office sales!" Or something equally inane like that, which is not how corporations work at all, it's about the bottom line. I'd meant what I said, this would not only be a repeat of 2014 for older EU fans, it would drag DC fans along with it. I mean, perhaps I am more cynical than others, since LF has gone out of their way to discredit the older lore and fans and most casuals buy it, and yet I still find this hard to swallow.

But at the end of the day, retcon the ST all you want. Just don't shove it into SWL, please. That proves you never cared about it at all, it's just a quick ride to easy success off of other people's hard work, and you believe the older fans are just idiots you're trolling to leave you in droves. Rebrand the DC and ST into Star Wars Infinities, which was where non-canon content was made if you're not going to just make a changed timeline, that you have to put it somewhere. We shall see where this goes.

It will never cease to amaze me the ham-fisted way they went about that though. I, personally, would have gone the route of trying to make a strong female character that boys AND girls can look up to. Y'know, like ''Alien'' did with Ripley?

But instead - and God knows why - they thought the best way to go about this was to create a woman who is basically Heracles whilst simultaneously demeaning the male cast. This was never going to wash and I cannot think of a time when it would have done. The seventies gave me Ripley, the eighties gave me Sarah Connor, the nineties gave me Buffy, the noughties gave me Starbuck and the New Tens gave me... Rey. Spot the odd one out.

This idea that we are now more sexist or that we are as sexist as we ever was simply does not wash when you take into account the numerous strong female characters that have worked and are absolutely beloved. We don't like Rey because of what she represents and the fact that she is boring.

Personally, I didn't find Rey that boring. And I'm all for the "she's a Star Wars Fangirl" - approach. Plus: the new Tens gave you Wonder Woman, Amelia Pond, Clara Oswald, Elizabeth "Lizzie" Keen as characters you could look up to. Persons, that lived a normal live, until they were pulled in the Extraordinary .

Concerning the "the Force is female" - I'm a guy and I don't have any problem with it. The Force is Female - as the Force is Male, so the Force doesn't care about gender.

By the way, what do you mean with "create a woman, who is basically Heracles"?
You can't be talking about Rey, because that doesn't fly. Heracles was born, because Zeus wanted to bang a Greek woman (hey, it's Zeus, that's his MO) and Hera was raging with jealousy. So - that can't be your "Rey"-parallel.
What's next concerning Herc? He's inhumanely strong. Does that apply to Rey? Well, she's a force user, but she can do all the other stuff, that any other force user could do. So - that can't be yor Rey-Parallel.
Did Rey have to suffer through 12 tasks? Not that I'd be aware of - so... whom are you talking about?

And while we're at it - where do you see "demeaning the male cast"?

I call her Heracles to be sarcastic as I believe her to be essentially a demi-god at this point. More powerful than anyone, more skilled than anyone, more beloved than anyone. She is beyond being a mere Mary Sue.

As for demeaning the male cast, I noted it in more detail in a previous post a page back. There is not a single male character in the Sequel trilogy that I can admire. They are all either evil, cowardly, comic relief or subservient to the plot. The females on the other hand are universally heroes or leaders. I also challenged anyone here to prove me wrong should they disagree. Give me man or boy in this trilogy that I can look up to and I will retract my statement.

You can't admire - say - Poe Dameron, Fighter extraordinaire? I admire persons, who fly up to a Star Destroyer and poke fun at the commander of said ship. That is something that screams "chuzpe", because - don't forget: The new order can blast your little ship to pieces in no time.

TFA Poe yeah, sure. But his whole plot of TLJ was that he was a hot headed danger to his men who cannot listen to a female leader. I dont agree, i think he was in the right and Holdo was Zapp Brannigan's less talented sister, but that does not change the fact that I am not MEANT to agree with him.

And what did we get in TROS? The implication that Rey is a superior pilot to him. Rey - an uneducated woman who grew up in a desert - is superior to the best pilot in the Resistance.

Nope, sorry, I disagree with you concerning "Poe was in the right". I mean - it is unknown, how the First Order can track the fleeing ship so, the simplest solution is: Keep everything as close to your vest as you can.

But Poes entrance in the movie screams Chuzpe.
And maybe, just maybe, you can have a character, whom you think of, that he is cool - while he's "a hot headed danger".

Even if for the sake of argument I were to agree with you, the moment this STOPS being true is when Poe threatens to take the bridge along with a sizeable number of Holdo's senior staff - which is something that is often forgotten. She was such a shitty commander that she was inspiring confidence in practically nobody at this point.

[clearspira]

Didn't the First Order only find them when Benicio Del Toro overheard the whole plan in the first place by Finn and Rose?

I'm pretty sure though yeah Poe is responsible for exposing the fleet somehow.

After he humbled himself, apologized and was still rebuffed when asking for a plan. (with some bs about hope, I know many people in this forum that would not accept this if you replaced hope with God)

Nothing quite like people who use starwars has an example(excuse) to protest and riot, saying Poe should have just shut up and obeyed authority.

I think what people tend to miss is that Poe is a man who signed up to RESIST a fascist dictatorship from controlling his life. Is it really that unlikely that when faced with a woman who seems to be running her ship like a dictator in Leia's absence that he would go against her?

The Resistance isn't a traditional military and it is stupid for anyone, fans or those in-universe, to hold it to such rigid ideals of discipline. Even Neelix of all people had to tell Tuvok that when he was failing at training those Maquis crewmen.

[CaptainCalvinCat]

Didn't the First Order only find them when Benicio Del Toro overheard the whole plan in the first place by Finn and Rose?

I'm pretty sure though yeah Poe is responsible for exposing the fleet somehow.

After he humbled himself, apologized and was still rebuffed when asking for a plan. (with some bs about hope, I know many people in this forum that would not accept this if you replaced hope with God)

Nothing quite like people who use starwars has an example(excuse) to protest and riot, saying Poe should have just shut up and obeyed authority.

I think what people tend to miss is that Poe is a man who signed up to RESIST a fascist dictatorship from controlling his life. Is it really that unlikely that when faced with a woman who seems to be running her ship like a dictator in Leia's absence that he would go against her?

The Resistance isn't a traditional military and it is stupid for anyone, fans or those in-universe, to hold it to such rigid ideals of discipline. Even Neelix of all people had to tell Tuvok that when he was failing at training those Maquis crewmen.

Okay, I gotta admit, I only watched Episode 8 once. Not because it would be a feminist-agenda-laden movie, but I thought it was actually not that good and I found it quite boring - not the Canto Blight Scenes, mind you, but this "oh, we're fleeing from the First Order and we're running out of gas"-Scenes.

by the way, since when was "running out of fuel" something, that could work as a plot in Star Wars?

So - forgive my ignorance, but: They couldn't fly to another planet, because the First Order was always tracking them, right? So, from Admiral Ellie Sattlers perspective, it was quite clear, that a "need-not-to-know"-structure needs to be established.

And no, from Poes point of view, it was completely understandable, that he rebelled against said person, because she didn't tell him anything.

So, we have two interesting points of view.
1) "We might have a traitor in our midst, I cannot tell my crew, what my plan is, and hope that my crew will trust me enough and follow through"
2) "What is princess purple hairs plan? I need to know, because she might be the traitor."

By the way, concerning "running the ship like a dictator in Leias absence" - where exactly did she do that?
Were other pilots as inquisitive as Poe? Or did the others just say "I don't know, what her plan is, but I'm following her?"

Concerning "the resistance is not the military" - Yeah, but Poe is a pilot.

Poe Dameron was a human male who originally served as a member of the Spice Runners of Kijimi, before becoming a pilot in the New Republic and eventually joining the Resistance, rising to become acting General of the Resistance

The son of Lieutenant Shara Bey and Sergeant Kes Dameron of the Alliance to Restore the Republic, Dameron followed in his late mother's footsteps in becoming a pilot, serving the New Republic Defense Fleet as the commander of Rapier Squadron, but grew disillusioned with the Republic's inaction to the First Order's violations of the Galactic Concordance. Dameron defected to the Resistance, where he became one of General Leia Organa's most trusted operatives. Dameron flew under the callsign of Black Leader while piloting his specialized T-70 X-wing starfighter, Black One.

So - Po is military. He knows how the military works and that the commanding officer doesn't have to share every tidbit of information with the rest of the crew.

[McAvoy]

The way I looked at with Holdo withholding information from Poe.

1. Holdo was withholding information from Poe because she is of higher rank and he is just a pilot. A hot headed one at that. The whole thing could have been written a bit differently I think to reflect that if it is true.

2. The Feminist Agenda. It's a play on man not trusting a woman to lead. That a woman couldn't be competent to lead without a man. So they shoot it down. Man is wrong and the woman was right all along. This is the more simplistic way of explaining it for me. I didn't want to truly dive into the SJW aspects others have done about this.

3. Subverting Expectations. Poe is an established character. Holdo isn't. Poe is a hot headed but skilled pilot. It plays out a bit like how you would expect. Poe would end up being right in the end and all is forgiven. Instead, Poe is shot down and turned out he was wrong the entire time.

4. Or the whole thing was written with little thought about character motivations and how the movie plays out. Like the whole thing plays out like a filler scene.

Honestly, I think it's a combination of the first three with the last being a consequence of it all.

That's just me.

Haven't thought about how I would do the whole thing without changing it. Then again I hate the so called 'Holdo Maneuver'. So maybe the whole thing needs to be changed.

Maybe instead, the fleet is stuck due to an Interdictor ship being present. And just skipping the whole mutiny scene while they are being chased to the planet. Make it short.