Picard - Remembrance

[CaptainCalvinCat]

I think time has changed things more than anything since this is probably one of the absolute LEAST preachy Star Trek series.

That's also something that I'm really happy that we haven't seen in this era of Trek, over preachiness on borderline smugness like in Seasons 1 and 2 of The Next Generation and Enterprise, I'm happy with the messages that Star Trek has always tried to teaches us, I however don't need the characters to act all superior and smug while doing it, it undermines the message.

Yes, Patrick Stewart wanted to do a Mass Effect series basically. Maybe he heard about it from Marina.

Its pew-pew-pew on the Normandy Firefly.

Honestly I don't see it myself, while there is action like any Star Trek series, there feels like there's a lot more scenes where the characters are interacting with each other, talking about their past, their feelings, talking about moral quandaries that sort of stuff, really good in my opinion as well, and as CaptainCalvinCat said in their post Star Trek Picard is an adventure show with parts told as a Detective Story, a Heist story, a base under siege story, and I think it is done very well, I'm fine with some action in Star Trek if it is incorporated into the story well or is interesting and inventive, so no I don't see Star Trek Picard as the "pew-pew" show that others claim it is.

Also the it's just Mass Effect but with Picard comparison, personally again I don't see it, I'll probably say more when Chuck gets to it, but suffice to say the similarity's are merely a coincidence, Mass Effect was about fighting these H.P. Lovecraft like monsters, where as Picard focused more on the rights and sentience on the Synthetics and Picard himself trying to stop them from turning into the same as those that shunned them.

I think, the first time, that the "This is just Pew-Pew"-argument was used, was during the times of Alec Peters and his Axanar-Debacle. But Axanar, Star Trek Discovery and Star Trek Picard are so much more than just simple "Pew Pew".

The de facto "Pew pew" is just a small part of those stories. But apparently, people like to over-simplify things and they focus on that, what they dislike the most.

By the way, I'd be curious to know, what CharlesPhipps's source was, if he knows that, Patrick Stewart wanted to make a Mass Effect series? I mean - that argument does not only not fly, it is having difficulties of getting is ass of the ground.

A) If there are similiarities, I'm sure, as you are, Link, that they're coincidental, B) I have to think about the clothing of Doctor Christmas Jones in the Bond-movie "The World is not enough". She wears a midriff top, very short trousers and boots and is played by Denise Richards. People say "Hey, that's Lara Croft", but I have to believe Miss Richards, if she says that neither her nor the director knew who Lara Croft was.

[CharlesPhipps]

When I say, "He wanted to do a Mass Effect series" I mean that he wanted to an action-orientated and big budget spectacle series. We've known Patrick Stewart loves these for some time, which is why he loved putting Picard in as many such stories as he did. Like when he did DIE HARD on the Enterprise, the Vash stories, and so on.

I also don't think big shoot-em-up bang bang action Star Trek is bad by itself either.

[Link8909]

I think, the first time, that the "This is just Pew-Pew"-argument was used, was during the times of Alec Peters and his Axanar-Debacle. But Axanar, Star Trek Discovery and Star Trek Picard are so much more than just simple "Pew Pew".

The de facto "Pew pew" is just a small part of those stories. But apparently, people like to over-simplify things and they focus on that, what they dislike the most.

By the way, I'd be curious to know, what CharlesPhipps's source was, if he knows that, Patrick Stewart wanted to make a Mass Effect series? I mean - that argument does not only not fly, it is having difficulties of getting is ass of the ground.

A) If there are similiarities, I'm sure, as you are, Link, that they're coincidental, B) I have to think about the clothing of Doctor Christmas Jones in the Bond-movie "The World is not enough". She wears a midriff top, very short trousers and boots and is played by Denise Richards. People say "Hey, that's Lara Croft", but I have to believe Miss Richards, if she says that neither her nor the director knew who Lara Croft was.

When I say, "He wanted to do a Mass Effect series" I mean that he wanted to an action-orientated and big budget spectacle series. We've known Patrick Stewart loves these for some time, which is why he loved putting Picard in as many such stories as he did. Like when he did DIE HARD on the Enterprise, the Vash stories, and so on.

I also don't think big shoot-em-up bang bang action Star Trek is bad by itself either.

I definitely agree with you both, action in on itself is not a bad thing in Star Trek, and Star Trek as always had action in every series, and I said I think Star Trek Picard is very light on action compared to the amount of scenes with the characters interacting with each other.

However I don't think its fare to assume what Sir Patrick Stewart's motivations were for creative decisions beyond what he has already said in interviews.

[Darth Wedgius]

Ah yes, the good ol' "The anti racists are just as bad as the racists" line.

Said by no one that I know of. However, some people who call themselves anti-racists are as bad as the people they call racists. Some people will call themselves anti-racists while being racist. Those people, I'm happy to call SJWs. Along with people who are sexist while claiming to fight sexism.

[Darth Wedgius]

Jake still needed Nog's money.

Jake didn't need the money, the episode needed him to need it.

I'm not trying to be pedantic but let's look at the episode:

Jake sees that his father is stressed and wants to lift his spirit, fair enough.

Jake decides a better than average gift will be how he helps his father, fair enough.

Jake does not want to implicate any of the adults, because he does not want to risk it not being a surprise, fair enough.

Jake decides that the only gift good enough is a hundreds of years old artifact, wait what ?

I appreciate the writers wanting to explore the limits of Earth's future economy but "minor/young adult not having the assets to buy ancient artifact" is not a complaint that speaks about how bad the human system is or how good the ferengi system is.

Sorry if I was unclear. The episode certainly didn't say that the Ferengi economic system was better, but that it had an advantage in this one area. It showed that the Terran system (I don't know if it operates on all the human colonies or all Federation worlds) wasn't flexible enough to meet Jake's desire. I.E., the disadvantages aren't one-sided.

If you mean that wasn't a very serious shortcoming, I'd have to agree with you. Who ended up with the card was hardly life or death. Unless the cellular regeneration and entertainment chamber actually works...

[Fianna]

Note: That's only an issue in the first place if you assign value to having the original, centuries old copy of the card, rather than a perfect replica which can presumably whipped up in nothing flat. Part of the premise behind the Federation economy is that people no longer place such importance on owning things for their own sake.

[Artabax]

Note: That's only an issue in the first place if you assign value to having the original, centuries old copy of the card, rather than a perfect replica which can presumably whipped up in nothing flat. Part of the premise behind the Federation economy is that people no longer place such importance on owning things for their own sake.

But they do. Sisko's depression was cured by the joy of owning that Card. It was indeed a matter of Life or Death, morale is vital to the war effort.

If Jake had been Human, then the story would have been (as mentioned above) a child with a few pennies of pocket money (allowance) cannot afford ancient artifact and must get large amount of money. That was NOT the story.

Jake is a Hyoomonn. The story was Nog teaching the Hyoomonn, this thing that we people call Money. Just as Captain Kirk must teach the Aliens this thing that we people call Love.

[hammerofglass]

The whole thing is really summed up when Jake tries to paraphrase Picard's impressive "we work to better ourselves" speach from First Contact and is then completely unable to answer when Nog asks what any of that actually means. Especially when you consider Ron Moore wrote both.

[Riedquat]

Ah yes, the good ol' "The anti racists are just as bad as the racists" line.

A statement which over-simplifies to such a degree that it's worthless.

If you are an American

I'm not.

On that same token, if someone is constantly saying "this is SJW shit" without any hint of irony (especially with the years and years of baggage associated with the term) they need to be either ready to explain themselves, or they should've known to drop the term long ago.

A sword that cuts both ways - ditto with any rejection of such people "Oh, it's someone saying something similar to something I've heard before, I rejected it then because it didnt' say what I like so I'll do the same now." I hope you're not expecting people to have to repeat the same fundamentals of a position every time - after all if someone says something unarguably racist would you expect to have to trot out why that's a problem every time?

Terms have meanings. You might be right that as a purely intellectual pursuit it would be ideal to sit down and try to hash out if someone spouting racist/whatever dog whistles doesn't actually believe what they're saying, or maybe they just misunderstand that what they're saying might be seen as such, or maybe they're not actually that racist/whatever deep inside, but most of us don't have the time for that and are going to take what people say for exactly what it means. It's your duty to make sure you are not misunderstood. And even when it happens, it's not difficult to explain yourself.

It is difficult to explain yourself in the face of people who'll just hear what they want to hear. You can try to go in to more detail but then "I don't have time to read that" comes up. A plain statement "that's racist / SJW nonsense / whatever" doesn't cut it but neither does claiming "you're not making your point well enough" when the person saying that is unwilling to meet them halfway. A common habit people have is to try to simplify any message or opinion down to a ridiculous degree and then pigeonhole it. And when that happens the problem lies with the person doing that, not the one giving the opinion.

If you're not prepared to make the effort to understand their position - to empathise with them - then you don't have any grounds for complaint either. Certainly not if what you're really doing is finding excuses to dismiss Both sides of an opinion need to be willing to make the effort rather than finding excuses not to.

[Darth Wedgius]

Note: That's only an issue in the first place if you assign value to having the original, centuries old copy of the card, rather than a perfect replica which can presumably whipped up in nothing flat. Part of the premise behind the Federation economy is that people no longer place such importance on owning things for their own sake.

Well... What Picard said in First Contact was:

The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force of our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity.

The joy in owning an original baseball card isn't just the acquisition of wealth. If Nog can afford that card, it probably isn't worth a huge amount (he's bright but he's just a kid), and Sisko probably didn't think of it as an investment. I mean, in a broad sense, owning pretty much anything means owning wealth (debt-ridden properties, etc., aside), but Picard could have meant the acquisition of wealth in general. A lot of people are motivated by $ (not excepting myself -- I like money at least as much as the next guy), but Sisko wasn't looking at the card in terms of how much he could get for it on Ebay.